Epi LP Custom Switch Wiring Woes

[Ethdawg]

Hello there.

I have recently returned to work upon my Epi LP, which has been in its case sans-pickups for some time now. I have been attempting to create a wiring schematic which will allow me to Split either HB's coils (North or South), or run each coil Parallel \ Series individually. After doing a large amount of research across the web, including every guitar electronics link I could find, as well as giving myelf a crash course in electric circuits over the past two weeks, I have found myself at a stand-still with my current setup.

I currently have available two Fender 2-Pole 5-Position switches, a 3-Pos Toggle Switch, and two Mighty Mite DPDT On/On/On Mini-Toggle switches.

What I have been trying to determine, is whether or not it would be possible to wire one of the HBs to one of the Fender switches, allowing me Parallel\Series and North or South coil splitting. As well, if that is possible, I would then like to wire one of the Mini Toggles to put the bridge pickup out of phase, and the other Mini Toggle to change between Parallel & Series when combining BOTH pickups.

So, logically, you would have:

[Neck] -> [Fender 5-Way] -> [Volume Pot] -> *
[Bridge] -> [Fender 5-Way] -> [On/On/On Phase Switch] -> [Volume Pot] -> *

* -> [On/On/On PL\SR Switch] -> [3 Way Toggle (N, N+B, B)] -> Output Jack

I really am at my wits end with this concept. I have spent almost two weeks straight spending my time off of work jotting down schematics and running through different combinations of switches, etc. I know there are a few wiring gurus which frequent this board, and any external help would be much appreciated. If all else fails I may have to resort to ordering a super\mega type switch from an online vendor. However, I would like to be able to complete the circuit with my current set of parts if at all possible.

Thanks

 

[Artie]

Re: Epi LP Custom Switch Wiring Woes

Hey dawg; Welcome to the forum. I can chew on this a bit, but I need to clarify one thing. In the first paragraph you mention "run each coil Parallel \ Series individually", which would be impossible. Parallel and series are both terms that refer to how one coil is connected to another. So, did you mean series/parallel of one pickup onto itself, or between two pickups?

Artie

 

[Ethdawg]

Re: Epi LP Custom Switch Wiring Woes

Hah, a late night strikes again.

I did indeed mean to say run each individual pickup (both coils) in Series or Parallel with itself.

Thanks

 

[tone4days]

Re: Epi LP Custom Switch Wiring Woes

welcome ethdawg

i reread your post a few times to try to decipher exactly what you want and i got confused at the same point as artie ...

as for splitting:
i used an on-off-on mini toggle in order to be able to select "north-only" - both (internal series) - "south-only" ... black to one side, red/white to the middle and green to the other side

as for what you want, and given an Epi LP's pre-drilled holes, i think you will get most of what you are looking for by using the "jimmy page" wiring ... it will not give you 'north-both-south' splitting however .. but it will give you everything else you want (and more, i think)

how were you planning to use fender 5-ways in an Epi LP? cut a slot and drill some holes? are you sure there'd be enough room in the control cavity? or are you planning to route that bigger and get a custom back plate made?

cheers
t4d

 

[Ethdawg]

Re: Epi LP Custom Switch Wiring Woes

I have the space and the tools available to get the components into the cavity.

Being able to Independently select the North or South coil of each humbucker is important to me, which is why I chose not to go with Series\Split\Parallel with the DPDT. As well, I wanted to be able to go Series\Parallel with each individual pickup, independently, which is why I didn't wire it up as North\Series\South either.

I was initially going to go with Push\Pull pots, but after researching on some of the various multi-pole rotary switches available I think I may return the two Fender 5-ways and find an online vendor for 3 of those.

Regardless, the most trouble I've had with attempting this setup is because I have not been able to find any schematics anywhere which show a 2pole5pos switch wired to a single HB for multiple switching options.

Thanks

 

[Artie]

Re: Epi LP Custom Switch Wiring Woes

I've been doodling up a few things, and I don't see any good way to do this with standard 5-way switches. However, you can do it with a pair of Super Switches. (If you can fit them in, it could be cool.)

A 4-wire humbucker has 5 fundamental modes of operation:

1. Series humbucker (standard wiring)
2. Split to north coil
3. Split to south coil
4. Parallel
5. Off

Now imagine your two Super Switches mounted side-by-side ala aircraft throttles. All the way back would be "off", and as you brought them forward, they'ld select the functions in the above order. (I'd reverse the north and south split on one switch to keep them in "sync".)

Now you could add the phase and series switches fairly easily. This could be a very cool switch matrix . . . albeit, a complex one.

If you decide to go that route, I can supply the diagram.

Artie

 

[tone4days]

Re: Epi LP Custom Switch Wiring Woes

cool, artie .. now it is time to raise our favorite topic ... yup ... you guessed it ... the t4d v. artie 'mag flipping / reverse wiring' discussion ...

should he? or should he not bother? ... i love your idea of reversing the order of one of the 5-way's in order to preserve n/s or s/n ... the question becomes does he want them to be 'tops' and 'bottom' or 'inners' and outers'?

cheers
t4d

 

[Artie]

Re: Epi LP Custom Switch Wiring Woes

cool, artie .. now it is time to raise our favorite topic ... yup ... you guessed it ... the t4d v. artie 'mag flipping / reverse wiring' discussion ...

should he? or should he not bother? ... i love your idea of reversing the order of one of the 5-way's in order to preserve n/s or s/n ... the question becomes does he want them to be 'tops' and 'bottom' or 'inners' and outers'?

cheers
t4d

Yeah, its a tough call. :laugh2:

When I had a pair of Stag Mags in one guitar, I had switches to let me pick any single coil, in any configuration, just to hear how they all sounded. I found that my favorite "singles sound" was the coil closest to the neck in both pups - which worked out perfect because they remained humbucking when my 3-way was in the middle.

So . . . to summarize: What I found that worked best for a 2-hum guitar was a simple 3-way to select neck, neck/bridge, or bridge, with a simple DPDT toggle switch to split to the "upper" coils. (As the guitar sets on a stand.)

Dirt simple - good sound and versatility.

The thing is, each person needs to try their own switching configuration, in order to find their own "good combo".

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Epi LP Custom Switch Wiring Woes

To expand upon what Artie said, might it be better to leave the back plate off, extend the wires with some extra wire, then try out all the combinations on a breadboard? Just to make sure that you want every single combo and that you want to route and cut for 2 5-ways on a LP? Unless you are positive that you want every single one of all those sounds...

 

[Ethdawg]

Re: Epi LP Custom Switch Wiring Woes

Hello Again.

I decided to revive my thread since I've now finally found the time to return to my 'dust-gathering' Epi LP project.

What I've decided on is investing in 6-way 4-pole Rotary switches from Guitar Electronics.

The problem I have now is determining exactly how to go about this Frankenstein wiring mod. I originally planned to buy 3 of these switches, but upon further review I've realized there are alternative solutions to acheive what I am looking for. I havn't purchased anything yet, so I'll suggest a scenario and leave it to your creative minds to suggest a switch configuration to acheive this.

Imagine one rotary switch capable of the following configurations for one HB (and then duplicated, so two switches with independent control):
1. North Coil
2. Both Coils in Series
3. Both Coils in Parallel
4. South Coil
5. Out-Of-Phase w\Itself (Parallel or Series depending on which would sound better)
6. Off (bypassed)

Then, somehow, allow these two individual configurations to combine, allowing:
1. Single Coil Neck & Single Coil Bridge (Inner or Outer)
2. Both HB Parallel
3. Both HB Series

Finally, allow the above 3 combinations to be In or Out of Phase.
--
I also have a standard 3-way toggle switch, and a DPDT (On\On\On) toggle at my disposal.

Why would I want such monstrous wiring & tonal options? Well, it's an Epi! The body is beautiful, but overall its 'epiphone' quality shows. Therefore, it's my experimental Guitar, and before buying a 'real' guitar down the road... I want to take this one to the limit.

 

[Ethdawg]

Re: Epi LP Custom Switch Wiring Woes

(shameless bump)

 

[Frebnedzo]

Re: Epi LP Custom Switch Wiring Woes

Hello Again.

I decided to revive my thread since I've now finally found the time to return to my 'dust-gathering' Epi LP project.

What I've decided on is investing in 6-way 4-pole Rotary switches from Guitar Electronics.

The problem I have now is determining exactly how to go about this Frankenstein wiring mod. I originally planned to buy 3 of these switches, but upon further review I've realized there are alternative solutions to acheive what I am looking for. I havn't purchased anything yet, so I'll suggest a scenario and leave it to your creative minds to suggest a switch configuration to acheive this.

Imagine one rotary switch capable of the following configurations for one HB (and then duplicated, so two switches with independent control):
1. North Coil
2. Both Coils in Series
3. Both Coils in Parallel
4. South Coil
5. Out-Of-Phase w\Itself (Parallel or Series depending on which would sound better)
6. Off (bypassed)

Then, somehow, allow these two individual configurations to combine, allowing:
1. Single Coil Neck & Single Coil Bridge (Inner or Outer)
2. Both HB Parallel
3. Both HB Series

Finally, allow the above 3 combinations to be In or Out of Phase.
--
I also have a standard 3-way toggle switch, and a DPDT (On\On\On) toggle at my disposal.

Why would I want such monstrous wiring & tonal options? Well, it's an Epi! The body is beautiful, but overall its 'epiphone' quality shows. Therefore, it's my experimental Guitar, and before buying a 'real' guitar down the road... I want to take this one to the limit.

http://guitarelectronics.zoovy.com/product/WDUH5R0001

Theres your linke to 5 way rotary to get 5 sounds from 1 HB.

So replace the bridge tone and volume with those for each pickup.

Now use a 6 way rotary in the position of the 3 way switch to
get

neck
neck+bridge
bridge
neck^bridge series
neck+bridge_out_of_phase
neck^bridge_out_of_phase series

and go to master volume and tone.

I have a LP 3 pup in process with 81 tone combinations (I hope at least
6 to be non-pointless). I think the wiring described above will have 110.

 

[Artie]

Re: Epi LP Custom Switch Wiring Woes

Hey dawg; I just saw this today. This is like an "electronics crossword puzzle" to me. I'll chew on this some more. I just want to make sure I understand what you have, and what you want:

Basically, you have a 2-humbucker guitar, and you want every possible combination. Right?

(We have the technology. We can rebuild him.)

Artie

 

[Ethdawg]

Re: Epi LP Custom Switch Wiring Woes

...This is like an "electronics crossword puzzle"...

Indeed, which is why I've come here

Basically, you have a 2-humbucker guitar, and you want every possible combination. Right?

More or less...

User-Friendliness isn't a primary concern, because I'm used to memorizing crazy little technical things like switch combinations.

~Eth

 

[Frebnedzo]

Re: Epi LP Custom Switch Wiring Woes

Heres another way to get all those tones and retain the three way
Gibby switch.

Replace the bridge tone and volume with 5-way rotarys.

The bridge goes through push/pull pot (master tone) for phase changes.

The neck and bridge go through push/pull pot (master volume) for
series/parallel connection.

The funky thing is that in the series connection, the Gibby switch turns
into "off/on/on" (where on/on are identical).

Still has all 110 combinations.

 

[octavedoctor]

Re: Epi LP Custom Switch Wiring Woes

You might want to take a look at this, it's a circuit I put together for a Jaguar mod i did recently. The slider switches complicate things a bit but it offers the options of inner coils together, outer coils together and full humbuckers.

I reckon that push pull switches still offer your best bet. One each for Series/parallel splitting, one which splits both humbuckers simultaneously and the fourth reversing the split options.