Fascinating Discovery tonight...

Zhangliqun

Questionologist
So I'm winding a set of dogears for a guy tonight, and my testbed for dogears isn't a dogear guitar but a Hamer Special P90. I've used it for years to test dogears because I'd always gotten orders only for bridge dogears because most folks just want them for a Junior or similar guitar, and this guitar it happens you can sit a dogear in at the bridge position with enough clearance -- even though it's a soapbar guitar.

This is not the case with the neck position so to test the phasing (make sure before shipping I didn't goof and put the mags in the wrong way or something), I hold the 2nd pu ABOVE the strings and even though I know I've wound it the right direction and the polarity is right, the durn thing is out of phase with the other pu.

Same with the third P90 (I'm winding 3 P90's for this guy's ES-5 clone). At this point I'm tearing my hair out and asking God for patience, switching the leads from hot to ground and vice versa, trying to make this right. Then out of curiosity I slide a bit of the pu UNDER the strings as they would normally be and VOILA -- they're in phase again.

The moral of the story (other than that a hair puller problem is an opportunity to learn something new) is that it is not entirely true that physical positioning doesn't affect the phasing of one pu vs. another in the same guitar. As long as both pickups are on the same side of the strings, physical positioning doesn't matter, but if they're on opposite sides, they are out of phase.

As I reflected on this, it made sense because each pickup is seeing the opposite side of the vibration of the string, ie: one pu sees the string come TOWARD it at the exact same moment the other pu sees the string move AWAY from it, creating electronically opposite signals that cancel each other out.

Anyway, a combination D'OH/VOILA moment I thought I'd share...
 
Re: Fascinating Discovery tonight...

thanks for that post Zhang - that's the kind of info that could save a whole lot of time and hassle, even if it seems unlikely.

have learned much from you sir
:beerchug:
 
Re: Fascinating Discovery tonight...

Interesting. Any practical use for this physical arrangement? Are Over/Unders going to be the next "big thing"? No sarcasm here, just curiosity.
 
Re: Fascinating Discovery tonight...

Yep, turning the pickup upside down does the same thing as reversing the wind direction, making the pickup out of phase.
 
Re: Fascinating Discovery tonight...

Now we can start experimenting needlessly with "above-the-strings" pickup tones. Sweet.
 
Re: Fascinating Discovery tonight...

The only reason I was holding the pu above the strings was because it was a dogear and wouldn't fit UNDER the strings in the neck position cavity. You can't even semi-seriously test tone that way (even the hand-held pu by itself) because your hand still moves some, no matter how still it looks, as does the guitar, so it sounds like your messing with the volume knob, plus that annoying SKRAAAK when the vibrating low E hits the polepiece.

The only purpose I had for holding the pu OVER the strings like that was to test phasing with the other pu, and we've seen that doesn't even work -- except now that I've blazed this "trail" if you hear it sounding out of phase, then you know it will be IN phase when installed.
 
Re: Fascinating Discovery tonight...

The only purpose I had for holding the pu OVER the strings like that was to test phasing with the other pu, and we've seen that doesn't even work -- except now that I've blazed this "trail" if you hear it sounding out of phase, then you know it will be IN phase when installed.

i wasn't being sarcastic, i could see why you'd want to be able to test phasing without mounting 3 pickups to someone else's hollowbody
 
Re: Fascinating Discovery tonight...

Rickenbacker horseshoe pickups wrapped around the string but I don't remember if any of them read the string from the top? Possibly Lindsay Buckingham's guitars?
 
Re: Fascinating Discovery tonight...

Rickenbacker horseshoe pickups wrapped around the string but I don't remember if any of them read the string from the top? Possibly Lindsay Buckingham's guitars?

The horseshoe pickups still have the coil and polepieces under the strings. I've got a couple of those old 1930's Ricky lap steels. They're my favorites! Nothing to do with the original post but here's a pic of my '36 Ricky.

Interesting information Zhang - I don't know how useful it is since most of us tend mount our pickups under the strings, but tidbits like that are interesting to obsess-o-holics like us! :)
 
Re: Fascinating Discovery tonight...

The horseshoe pickups still have the coil and polepieces under the strings. I've got a couple of those old 1930's Ricky lap steels. They're my favorites! Nothing to do with the original post but here's a pic of my '36 Ricky.

Interesting information Zhang - I don't know how useful it is since most of us tend mount our pickups under the strings, but tidbits like that are interesting to obsess-o-holics like us! :)
I wasn't sure about the lap steels, but I know the bass and guitars the cover is just a hand rest.
 
Re: Fascinating Discovery tonight...

I wasn't sure about the lap steels, but I know the bass and guitars the cover is just a hand rest.

Is that right? I've never owned a Ricky bass, but the horseshoes are the magnets on the lapsteels. :)
 
Re: Fascinating Discovery tonight...

Interesting. Since most picking goes on at the bridge (or at least rarely over the neck pickup, though it does happen), one could build a mounting ring that allows a pickup to be mounted over the neck position. I'm thinking a fully-encased model so nothing shows through the "top" but the poles would be visible on the "bottom".

Granted you don't see many single-hum LPs or such, but for those of us with 1-hum-wonders that may want a neck pickup without really cutting wood....
<----------------
Hmmmmmmm........
 
Re: Fascinating Discovery tonight...

Interesting information Zhang - I don't know how useful it is since most of us tend mount our pickups under the strings, but tidbits like that are interesting to obsess-o-holics like us! :)

It's not exactly practical knowledge (except in the situation described) but nonetheless interesting.
 
Re: Fascinating Discovery tonight...

Is that right? I've never owned a Ricky bass, but the horseshoes are the magnets on the lapsteels. :)
With my 4001 you have a single coil at the bridge that is suspended from a metal ring. Inside the ring you have the mounting screws and springs. The guard fits over the opening in the ring and is suspended by the screws and springs. So the guard hovers over the strings and the strings go through it and above the pickup.
 
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