Finally got a Hot Plate!

[sooperunkn]

I scored one for $160 of eBay and got it this weekend. I'm using it w/ my Dual Rectifier (3-channel) and Marshall 1960A cab.

So I plugged it in and pumped my master to 1:00 (normally 8:30) and to be honest... I was a little disappointed. My tone was a little flubby. I don't think it's a HotPlate issue, it's the very finnicky Boogie EQ. Just when I was finally at peace with my settings now I have to go back in and tweak them again.

For you non-Boogie owners this probably sounds pretty trivial but understanding the EQ on the Dual Rectifiers requires a friggin PhD! I know it will all be worth it in the end but it's such a pain in the a$$!!!

 

[JeffB]

Re: Finally got a Hot Plate!

I scored one for $160 of eBay and got it this weekend. I'm using it w/ my Dual Rectifier (3-channel) and Marshall 1960A cab.

So I plugged it in and pumped my master to 1:00 (normally 8:30) and to be honest... I was a little disappointed. My tone was a little flubby. I don't think it's a HotPlate issue, it's the very finnicky Boogie EQ. Just when I was finally at peace with my settings now I have to go back in and tweak them again.

For you non-Boogie owners this probably sounds pretty trivial but understanding the EQ on the Dual Rectifiers requires a friggin PhD! I know it will all be worth it in the end but it's such a pain in the a$$!!!

Alot of that "issue" is not the EQ..at least directly..it's lack of speaker interaction....and thats something the attentuators can't address..unfortunately, it's KEY to a cranked amp sound.

This is why I'm looking for (but not so much in a hurry to get now) a low wattage boutique Marshall copy....can get some speaker interaction without peeling the paint or pi$$ing off my neighbors.

I really wish the bigger guys would bring out more FULL FEATURED low wattage models...Marshall in particular. They HAVE to realize the majority of people buying amps don't need 40 plus tube watts. Not saying there are those who don't have a need for stacks...but they are fewer and farther between.

A full featured 15-25 watt all tube (with a VPR switch) 2 or 3 channel Marshall amp would sell like a MOFO.

 

[sooperunkn]

Re: Finally got a Hot Plate!

Alot of that "issue" is not the EQ..at least directly..it's lack of speaker interaction....and thats something the attentuators can't address..unfortunately, it's KEY to a cranked amp sound..

Yeah I'm definitely aware of that, but I'd rather hear the power tubes AND preamp tubes distort than just the preamp tubes.

This is why I'm looking for (but not so much in a hurry to get now) a low wattage boutique Marshall copy....can get some speaker interaction without peeling the paint or pi$$ing off my neighbors.

I really wish the bigger guys would bring out more FULL FEATURED low wattage models...Marshall in particular. They HAVE to realize the majority of people buying amps don't need 40 plus tube watts. Not saying there are those who don't have a need for stacks...but they are fewer and farther between.

A full featured 15-25 watt all tube (with a VPR switch) 2 or 3 channel Marshall amp would sell like a MOFO.

I'd be right there with you! It seems the low wattage tube amps are all bare bones Class A, 1 tone/1 volume jobs. It would be extremely sweet to see a multi-channel 15 watt amp by someone like Mesa, Marshall, Soldano, etc...

 

[B2D]

Re: Finally got a Hot Plate!

I agree with you on the MESA's being finicky. The controls are HIGHLY interactive and that just drives me nuts.

One of the reasons I'm liking my Legacy more and more each day is the fact that the controls are 1 m-ohm sealed pots that have a wider control range AND do not interact with each other. :smoker:

 

[aleclee]

Re: Finally got a Hot Plate!

Yeah I'm definitely aware of that, but I'd rather hear the power tubes AND preamp tubes distort than just the preamp tubes.

You're probably not going to like the results if you get power tube distortion on a Mesa.

First, it's so loud that you'll have to attenuate the snot out of it. Most attenuators start to get that wet blanket sound at about 8dB and definitely above 12dB. To attenuate a 100W amp by 12dB still puts you at about 6-8W and that's going to provide SPLs over 100dB so you might even be too loud and too muffled.

Secondly, Mesas weren't designed for power section distortion. Like all tube amps, they sound better when the power tubes are getting exercised but the results will be mighty disappointing if the power tubes actually start clipping when the preamps are saturating, too.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Finally got a Hot Plate!

You're probably not going to like the results if you get power tube distortion on a Mesa............Like all tube amps, they sound better when the power tubes are getting exercised but the results will be mighty disappointing if the power tubes actually start clipping when the preamps are saturating, too.

I'll agree with that and Fenders are very similar. A little breakup and they sound good...but it's a fine line and they will get mushy and nasty realllll quick. Kind of the opposite of a Marshall which sounds better and better the harder you slam the tubes.

 

[sooperunkn]

Re: Finally got a Hot Plate!

You're probably not going to like the results if you get power tube distortion on a Mesa.

First, it's so loud that you'll have to attenuate the snot out of it. Most attenuators start to get that wet blanket sound at about 8dB and definitely above 12dB. To attenuate a 100W amp by 12dB still puts you at about 6-8W and that's going to provide SPLs over 100dB so you might even be too loud and too muffled.

Secondly, Mesas weren't designed for power section distortion. Like all tube amps, they sound better when the power tubes are getting exercised but the results will be mighty disappointing if the power tubes actually start clipping when the preamps are saturating, too.

Is this attributed to Mesa's (Sovtek) power tubes or is it the nature of the circuit? I'm on the hunt for new power tubes and I'm wondering if there are some out there that will improve what you're describing?

 

[JeffB]

Re: Finally got a Hot Plate!

Is this attributed to Mesa's (Sovtek) power tubes or is it the nature of the circuit?

Just the circuit/design. "softer" tubes may help, but the sound may just get more tubby/flubby top. Switching to EL34s if you don't already have them would probably help as well.

 

[aleclee]

Re: Finally got a Hot Plate!

Just the circuit/design. "softer" tubes may help, but the sound may just get more tubby/flubby top. Switching to EL34s if you don't already have them would probably help as well.

It's not just Mesa's circuit but a generality with high gain amps (Bogner, Soldano, VHT, etc.).

• Making the power tubes work sounds good
• Having the power tubes clip sounds bad

Personally, I think power tube distortion is overrated. Real power tube distortion sounds cool for light OD but, stacked on top of preamp or stompbox overdrive, it's not so hot. Even in a lot of classic Marshalls, the distinctive driven tone comes from the PI clipping rather than the power tubes. You can make the argument that the power section is clipping in that case but technically it's still not power tube distortion.

 

[sooperunkn]

Re: Finally got a Hot Plate!

It's not just Mesa's circuit but a generality with high gain amps (Bogner, Soldano, VHT, etc.).

• Making the power tubes work sounds good
• Having the power tubes clip sounds bad

Personally, I think power tube distortion is overrated. Real power tube distortion sounds cool for light OD but, stacked on top of preamp or stompbox overdrive, it's not so hot. Even in a lot of classic Marshalls, the distinctive driven tone comes from the PI clipping rather than the power tubes. You can make the argument that the power section is clipping in that case but technically it's still not power tube distortion.

Then I guess it's all about finding that sweet spot with the Master Volume.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Finally got a Hot Plate!

I really wish the bigger guys would bring out more FULL FEATURED low wattage models...Marshall in particular. They HAVE to realize the majority of people buying amps don't need 40 plus tube watts. Not saying there are those who don't have a need for stacks...but they are fewer and farther between.

A full featured 15-25 watt all tube (with a VPR switch) 2 or 3 channel Marshall amp would sell like a MOFO.

Big +1 there. Marshall has nothing to offer in the high end, low wattage market.

I'm thinking 4 EL84's with a switch that kills two of them for half power. Channel one would do Vox-y clean at low gain and Plexi-ish overdrive at high gain. Channel two would go from JTM crunchiness at low gain up into JCM 800 territory at high gain. Give each channel its own EQ and volume, and throw in a switchable parallel loop. Offer it as a head or a 1x12 ported closed back combo. I'd definitely be interested in that, and I'm sure lots of other people would too.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Finally got a Hot Plate!

Making the power tubes work sounds good
Having the power tubes clip sounds bad

You can make the argument that the power section is clipping in that case but technically it's still not power tube distortion.

Interesting...don't think I've ever heard this "argument"/ POV before...maybe Jeff Seal or some of the other amp techs could weigh in on this? (you may very well be an amp tech too Alec, I don't know, so no offense is intended by that).

 

[ankalar]

Re: Finally got a Hot Plate!

It's not just Mesa's circuit but a generality with high gain amps (Bogner, Soldano, VHT, etc.).

• Making the power tubes work sounds good
• Having the power tubes clip sounds bad

Personally, I think power tube distortion is overrated. Real power tube distortion sounds cool for light OD but, stacked on top of preamp or stompbox overdrive, it's not so hot. Even in a lot of classic Marshalls, the distinctive driven tone comes from the PI clipping rather than the power tubes. You can make the argument that the power section is clipping in that case but technically it's still not power tube distortion.

Exactly! Thus the reason why they even make a Triple Rectifier. Power tube distortion is not exactly the first thing you're looking for when you want a tight metal sound.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Finally got a Hot Plate!

Big +1 there. Marshall has nothing to offer in the high end, low wattage market.

I'm thinking 4 EL84's with a switch that kills two of them for half power. Channel one would do Vox-y clean at low gain and Plexi-ish overdrive at high gain. Channel two would go from JTM crunchiness at low gain up into JCM 800 territory at high gain. Give each channel its own EQ and volume, and throw in a switchable parallel loop. Offer it as a head or a 1x12 ported closed back combo. I'd definitely be interested in that, and I'm sure lots of other people would too.

That would be a hard amp to make (for a decent price). There's so much tonal variation between an 800 and a JTM for example. But if they could pull that off, I'd be a happy SOB :baby:

I think something like the "decade switch" on the Fargen Mini plex would be the way to go. It has a 60s/70's/and 80s setting...not sure what it actually does in the circuit, but it DO work.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Finally got a Hot Plate!

Exactly! Thus the reason why they even make a Triple Rectifier. Power tube distortion is not exactly the first thing you're looking for when you want a tight metal sound.

Personally, I feel investing in the right speakers and pickups would be more conducive to getting a "tight metal sound", than power tube breakup. Dimed 800s did "tight metal sound"s for many years.. ? :shrug:

And gosh are Recs REALLY that tight? Not the ones I've played (stock tubes though). Even with the SS rectifier switched in, I thought it was a little tubby compared to a Soldano,5150, or TSL.

 

[greendy123]

Re: Finally got a Hot Plate!

Big +1 there. Marshall has nothing to offer in the high end, low wattage market.

I'm thinking 4 EL84's with a switch that kills two of them for half power. Channel one would do Vox-y clean at low gain and Plexi-ish overdrive at high gain. Channel two would go from JTM crunchiness at low gain up into JCM 800 territory at high gain. Give each channel its own EQ and volume, and throw in a switchable parallel loop. Offer it as a head or a 1x12 ported closed back combo. I'd definitely be interested in that, and I'm sure lots of other people would too.

Actually marshall does have some low wattage amps a combo and head both around 20w output in their handwired series. The thing is their handwired and cost alot, but it's still a option if you have the money for it. http://www.marshallamps.com/product_range.asp?productCode=1974X

 

[aleclee]

Re: Finally got a Hot Plate!

Interesting...don't think I've ever heard this "argument"/ POV before...maybe Jeff Seal or some of the other amp techs could weigh in on this? (you may very well be an amp tech too Alec, I don't know, so no offense is intended by that).

I'm not a tech but they guy who made this post is.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Finally got a Hot Plate!

That would be a hard amp to make (for a decent price). There's so much tonal variation between an 800 and a JTM for example. But if they could pull that off, I'd be a happy SOB :baby:

I think something like the "decade switch" on the Fargen Mini plex would be the way to go. It has a 60s/70's/and 80s setting...not sure what it actually does in the circuit, but it DO work.

Maybe an easier amp to make would do a decent JTM impression on Channel One, and a decent Silver Jubilee impression on Channel Two. You could get a very wide range of tones from that, and it would be a very cool little amp.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Finally got a Hot Plate!

Actually marshall does have some low wattage amps a combo and head both around 20w output in their handwired series. The thing is their handwired and cost alot, but it's still a option if you have the money for it. http://www.marshallamps.com/product_range.asp?productCode=1974X

Wow, I didn't realize those were two channel. Thanks for the link.

Still, I'd like to see them sell something like that with a reasonable price tag.

 

[greendy123]

Re: Finally got a Hot Plate!

Yeah they look pretty good from the specs, I'd like have one someday to easily get power tube overdriven tones.