Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

[Demanic]

After perusing a post on Floyd Rose original vs. OFR models, it has set me to wondering: Why is Floyd Rose so much more regarded than Kahler? I remember having a Kahler on an old Carvin V220 and it didn't require a body rout but was still capable of either raising or lowering the pitch. Yet one rarely sees Kahlers offered as original equipment. What gives?

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

I prefer the Kahler on my Charvel Model 3, but they don't make those anymore...

View attachment 59800

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

The short answers are herd behaviour and fear of the unknown.

The Floyd had several head starts in marketing terms. It was a development of technology that was already well-known and understood. It fitted directly onto existing solid body electric guitars with only the stud inserts by way of modification. It was more plentiful. It was more visible. It was the one that more punters requested by name.

The Kahler flatmount Pro requires a rout to be made in the top of the guitar to accommodate the cam and springs. This mod is not easy to reverse. Choosing to go Kahler requires more commitment than a Floyd-licensed design. With the possible exception of the Fender David Gilmour Tribute Stratocaster, a Kahler rout repair is not a major selling plus point.

Both designs work and work well. The difference is in the way that they feel in use and the fact that the cam design keeps the strings at the same distance from the strings at all times (until they become completely floppy). As a MIDI Guitar user, the last consideration was important to me.

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

I'd really like to try a Kahler. But they're harder to find in shops, and more likely than not, they won't even be setup properly.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

The Kahler Pro flatmount is as easy to set up as anything Leo Fender ever designed. The variant that replaces Gibson Tune-o-Matic bridge/tailpiece combinations is a little more fiddly.

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

I don't doubt the Kahler's ease of setup - it won't be setup properly around me because the local GC and Sam Ash can barely manage to setup a strat vibrato or a Floyd Rose.

 

[ItsaBass]

Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

Kahlers are equal or superior to Floyds in every way, in the technical sense. Most importantly, they're highly - and easily - adjustable. They just never caught on like Floyds. I will take one any day over a Floyd. However, they are very different feeling types of vibratos. Floyds are a souped-up Strat-like vibrato, and Kahlers are a souped-up Mustang-like vibrato. They feel very different. If you like the way a Strat vibrato feels and behaves, then you probably want a Floyd, not a Kahler.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

Kahlers are a souped-up Mustang-like vibrato.

I do wish that you had not said that.

One of the eternal headaches with Fender Floating and Dynamic Vibrato systems is that the bridge assembly is free to move in synch with the tailpiece and the arm. This is one of the aspects that can mess things up. (Hence, the Tune-o-Matic modification, often associated with Kurt Cobain.) On the Kahler, the saddle section stays EXACTLY where you want it. Rollers cope with the string travel.

If you like the way a Strat vibrato feels and behaves, then you probably want a Floyd.

Agreed.

 

[jmh151]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

The reason Floyds are more favored is they flooded the market by way of Licensed Floyds.

Kahler also made a floyd copy that Floyd sued Kahler over, putting Kahler out of business for a number of years. In that time Floyd and its licensed copies continued to flood the market

 

[The Guitar]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

View attachment 59800

Had one of those on a Peavey Nitro. Was not getting along with it. Dropped a Killer on it until I traded the Nitro off.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

Had one of those on a Peavey Nitro. Was not getting along with it. Dropped a Killer on it until I traded the Nitro off.

That's too bad, I love this tremolo! Have a spare one just in case the original one on my Charvel Model 3 ever wears out.

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

I'd probably like both for their different reasons. Floyds for a rugged hunk of mass, Kahlers for the feel (it is a lot less stiff, right? Very easy to move the arm). Does the Kahler have the issue of double stop bends that recessed Floyds have?

 

[ItsaBass]

Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

I do wish that you had not said that.

What exactly is that supposed to mean?

One of the eternal headaches with Fender Floating and Dynamic Vibrato systems is that the bridge assembly is free to move in synch with the tailpiece and the arm. This is one of the aspects that can mess things up. (Hence, the Tune-o-Matic modification, often associated with Kurt Cobain.) On the Kahler, the saddle section stays EXACTLY where you want it. Rollers cope with the string travel.

Do you not know what the term "souped up" means?

There is no reason for an objection to my statement. The basic design of the Kahler is very similar to a Mustang vibrato. It is on a roller, connected by sub-surface springs directly to its own chassis, and shallowly mounted from the top of the guitar. The Kahler is a souped-up version of this basic design.

 

[Archer250]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

The reason Floyds are more favored is they flooded the market by way of Licensed Floyds.

Kahler also made a floyd copy that Floyd sued Kahler over, putting Kahler out of business for a number of years. In that time Floyd and its licensed copies continued to flood the market

Then Floyd Rose made the Speedloader, which resulted in a lawsuit from Kahler...

 

[jmh151]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

Then Floyd Rose made the Speedloader, which resulted in a lawsuit from Kahler...

I don't believe Kahler sued Floyd over the speedloader..

With the speedloader, at first not many guitar manufacturers were receptive to it, then Floyd had (and still has) a problem with the strings being made. So Floyd ceased production till they could get the strings made in house and up to speed

 

[Archer250]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

I don't believe Kahler sued Floyd over the speedloader..

With the speedloader, at first not many guitar manufacturers were receptive to it, then Floyd had (and still has) a problem with the strings being made. So Floyd ceased production till they could get the strings made in house and up to speed

I swear I saw the lawsuit somewhere on the internet. The Ibanez ZR and ZPS-3 system were also targeted.

 

[jmh151]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

I believe Gretsch sued Ibanez, since the ZR system infringed on too many patents they had on a bass drum Pedal

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

Does the Kahler have the issue of double stop bends that recessed Floyds have?

Yes. Of course it does. Just not to the same extent.

The Hybrid-X model allows the cam to be locked off and behave like a fixed bridge.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

Kahler also made a floyd copy that Floyd sued Kahler over, putting Kahler out of business for a number of years. In that time Floyd and its licensed copies continued to flood the market

Is this true or more internet BS? I have a couple steelers and both say licensed under floyd rose patents. If they had a license why did they get sued?

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

I always thought that Kahler had a better engineered bridge, just from the design. They're damned hard to find though, so I haven't had much experience actually playing them to see if it's really the case.