Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

With my Model 4 the strings will be flopping loosely on the pickups before they're in danger of popping out of the 'pockets'. If the strings are popping out earlier the rollers are probably set too low, and tuning stability will probably suffer as well. OTOH soldering the ball ends of the strings is intended to prevent the wrap from breaking when doing pullbacks. It definitely works, but I usually end up changing strings before that becomes a problem.

Mine was on a Les Paul copy, so steeper neck angle, and doing deep Floyd-style crash-dives meant the string tension reached a zero-point before the pickups snatched the strings.

In addition to the EVH endorsement, I'm sure cost had something to do with Floyds being more popular. I don't know the exact numbers, but I've seen many sources claim that Kahlers were more expensive back in the 80s.

Actually until about 1987/88, IIRC, the only way to get a Floyd Rose to have it mounted on a guitar was to buy a Kramer that had one on it, remove it, and then have your preferred axe modded for it. Kramer had the exclusive rights to it and did not make it available to the aftermarket for several years. Meanwhile, Kahler had already been offering theirs as an aftermarket option. My Kahler cost $250 brand new in 1986. The lowest-priced Kramer I saw in stores at the time that had a full double-locking Floyd setup started at $500.

 

[dystrust]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

Thank you dystrust!
I don't see in their website the possibility of purchasing any spare parts, though.

It's been a few years, but I've called Kahler's parts department and ordered a new set of springs and a couple bars from them. The guy I talked to had been with them for years and was extremely knowledgeable as far as parts, service, and proper setup.

These days Whammi World handles most Kahler parts, but I don't know if they ship to Bulgaria.

 

[Ascension]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

The reason Floyds are more favored is they flooded the market by way of Licensed Floyds.

Kahler also made a floyd copy that Floyd sued Kahler over, putting Kahler out of business for a number of years. In that time Floyd and its licensed copies continued to flood the market

Yep and sad too as the Steeler by Kahler is the best Floyd Rose type trem ever produced bar none!
Owned both and prefer the Kahlers in many ways as long as you run a true lock nut or locking tuners not the behind the nut lock.

 

[MkIII Renegade]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

I have two LTD Hanneman guitars with the same wood/construction/pickups, with the only critical non-cosmetic difference being that one has a Floyd and the other a Kahler.

I like the feel of both, with the Kahler being a welcome alternative from the same old feel I've been used to over the years. There also seems to be a subtle tonal difference between them, although that can exist even between two identical guitar models. Whatever the case, I like the Kahler model better tonally. It doesn't really seem to need the EMG SPC mid boost like the Floyd model does (I add this to all my EMG guitars), although I'll probably still get it for that one also. The action of the Kahler seems to be more effortless, although then there is the cool flutter trick that the Floyd can do (ok so I rarely do it......but still fun).

 

[DeathMetalRob]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

I believe Gretsch sued Ibanez, since the ZR system infringed on too many patents they had on a bass drum Pedal

Everyone suing eachother just seems like idiocy. Why not just have a gentleman's agreement on the design (like the Germans do with their cars) and 'edit' the more identical parts..?

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

Everyone suing eachother just seems like idiocy. Why not just have a gentleman's agreement on the design (like the Germans do with their cars) and 'edit' the more identical parts..?

Rob sounds like a great idea! how about we make a gentleman's agreement that any music you make I take for my own use by I will edit it a bit so its not identical. Sound good?

 

[DeathMetalRob]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

Rob sounds like a great idea! how about we make a gentleman's agreement that any music you make I take for my own use by I will edit it a bit so its not identical. Sound good?

Yes, I can see that but, it does seems a bit silly to me that it got quite out of hand with everybody suing eachother. There again, it COULD have been the case that companies ignored the patents and thought 'F**k it, we'll make it anyway'. which, is worthy of a suit.

Seems like a bit of a faff though.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

I love the TransTrem the best- the ability to bend whole chords perfectly in tune & push/pull it into place and lock it (instant transposing) makes it better than either for me.

 

[omg81]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

I don't have that much experience, played a few FR guitars (I own a Charvel So-Cal) and one LTD Hanneman signature with a Kahler (LP-style... think they're called Eclipse). Some guitarists swear by the Kahler, for example King and Hanneman of Slayer. What I loved about it was that it was just so butter smooth, the FR feels tighter/heavier/more resistant to me. The downside is, I bend a lot, and that's the Kahler's achilles heel as far as I understand it. They're said to go awfully out of tune when bending--as opposed to the FR which stays in tune no matter what you do with it--and the one I tried certainly did. Push/pull the trem once and it's in tune again, but I find that very unsatisfying. The one I tried had some other problems, but that's probably not the Kahler's fault, the whole LTD guitar was crap and shoddily put together, felt like a €150 guitar, not the €1,150 it cost. My old €300 Epiphone had WAY better quality. People say LTDs are great, I hope it was just an exception.

 

[Archer250]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

The Kahlers I've tried had faults, too. Subtle vibratos are damn hard. I like the tighter feel of Floyds, Gotohs and Strat trems more.

 

[dystrust]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

I don't have that much experience, played a few FR guitars (I own a Charvel So-Cal) and one LTD Hanneman signature with a Kahler (LP-style... think they're called Eclipse). Some guitarists swear by the Kahler, for example King and Hanneman of Slayer. What I loved about it was that it was just so butter smooth, the FR feels tighter/heavier/more resistant to me. The downside is, I bend a lot, and that's the Kahler's achilles heel as far as I understand it. They're said to go awfully out of tune when bending--as opposed to the FR which stays in tune no matter what you do with it--and the one I tried certainly did. Push/pull the trem once and it's in tune again, but I find that very unsatisfying. The one I tried had some other problems, but that's probably not the Kahler's fault, the whole LTD guitar was crap and shoddily put together, felt like a €150 guitar, not the €1,150 it cost. My old €300 Epiphone had WAY better quality. People say LTDs are great, I hope it was just an exception.

If you're talking about adjacent strings going out of tune during a bend, any vibrato will do that to some extent, except maybe a TransTrem. If you mean the guitar being out of tune after a bend, that indicates a setup problem or something broken / defective. I'm not sure which model you played, but I can think of a few possible explanations. If the guitar didn't have a Floyd Rose locking nut, the strings were likely binding at the nut which would cause the tuning problem. If it did, the nut may not have been clamped properly or the string clamps may have been warn / defective. Lastly the bridge may have been an X-Trem (licensed copy) instead of a genuine Kahler Pro or Hybrid. The X-Trem isn't horrible, but they aren't built to the same quality standards as higher end Kahlers.

The Kahlers I've tried had faults, too. Subtle vibratos are damn hard. I like the tighter feel of Floyds, Gotohs and Strat trems more.

That's really a matter of personal preference. I find subtle vibrato easier on a Kahler because it's less stiff than a fulcrum trem.

 

[omg81]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

If you're talking about adjacent strings going out of tune during a bend, any vibrato will do that to some extent, except maybe a TransTrem. If you mean the guitar being out of tune after a bend, that indicates a setup problem or something broken / defective. I'm not sure which model you played, but I can think of a few possible explanations. If the guitar didn't have a Floyd Rose locking nut, the strings were likely binding at the nut which would cause the tuning problem. If it did, the nut may not have been clamped properly or the string clamps may have been warn / defective. Lastly the bridge may have been an X-Trem (licensed copy) instead of a genuine Kahler Pro or Hybrid. The X-Trem isn't horrible, but they aren't built to the same quality standards as higher end Kahlers.

Some people told me this, and watch this video from 0:30 (and the guy's favourite guitar is his LTD Hanneman signature with a Kahler). That's exactly what happened when I bended strings on that LTD. FR on Jackson and Charvel stayed perfectly in tune.

 

[Lachezar Dochev]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

I love the TransTrem the best- the ability to bend whole chords perfectly in tune & push/pull it into place and lock it (instant transposing) makes it better than either for me.

Do they sell the tremolos seperately anywhere? I don't find such an option on the Steinberger website...

 

[Lucy Diamond]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

Here you go Sweerheart. 2:06

 

[Demanic]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

I just want to interject and say Thanks for all the info. This is quite possibly the most constructive and longest post that I have ever made. Thanks again!

 

[formula73]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

Maintenance.

You can beat the hell out of a Floyd and leave it in the rain and it'll run til the knife edges wear out. Then, it's done without a new baseplate and pivot studs.

You can't beat the hell out of a Kahler because the ball ends will pop out, or at least, move a bit and mess up zero. You can't leave it in the rain...but it's never really down for the count. The saddles and cam bearings are super easy to replace. You could probably fish one out of a lake, throw some parts at it, and it'll work.

But the behind the nut string lock sucks.

 

[Darth Nihilus]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

The flatmount Kahlers do NOT suffer from double stop bends, that's one of it's many advantages over a floating bridge like a Floyd.

 

[dystrust]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

The flatmount Kahlers do NOT suffer from double stop bends, that's one of it's many advantages over a floating bridge like a Floyd.

I wish that were true. My Kahler 2320 drops a lot less than a floating Floyd when doing bends / double stops, but it still drops. The only locking vibrato I've seen that doesn't drop is a Floyd that's set up dive-only with a Tremolo Stopper or similar blocking device.

 

[MkIII Renegade]

Re: Floyd Rose vs. Kahler

The feel is totally different between the two. If you use the bar a lot for radical dive bombs, strangulation, etc, I think the Kahler has a better feel. But the Floyd is better for more subtle accents and of course the infamous "flutter" trick. The Floyd has a much stiffer feel, compared to the limber/liquid movement of the Kahler.