Fralin PU magnets

[blueman335]

Interesting info. I just talked to Fralin, and asked them about what magnets they use in their PAF's and P-90's, as I didn't see it in their website. They are known for their high-quality and are meticulous in duplicating vintage PU's. To my surprise, they use A4's in both. They said this is the vintage magnet (they will use A5's and A2's for special orders). He said that A4's are actually an A5 that doesn't take a full charge, but are otherwise the same metals (unlike A2's and A3's, which are different mixes of metals). He said that A4's are almost as strong as an A5, and have the most balanced EQ of the common alnicos. Also that he doesn't consider A5's as 'mid-scooped', but rather just stronger in treble and bass.

He believes that the wood in a guitar is as important as the PU's in producing the final tone, and that thin necks lose a lot of tone quality, especially if they're thin at the heel. He much prefers the sounds generated by thick necks.

 

[Titanium]

Re: Fralin PU magnets

Interesting info. I just talked to Fralin, and asked them about what magnets they use in their PAF's and P-90's, as I didn't see it in their website. They are known for their high-quality and are meticulous in duplicating vintage PU's. To my surprise, they use A4's in both. They said this is the vintage magnet (they will use A5's and A2's for special orders). He said that A4's are actually an A5 that doesn't take a full charge, but are otherwise the same metals (unlike A2's and A3's, which are different mixes of metals). He said that A4's are almost as strong as an A5, and have the most balanced EQ of the common alnicos. Also that he doesn't consider A5's as 'mid-scooped', but rather just stronger in treble and bass.

He believes that the wood in a guitar is as important as the PU's in producing the final tone, and that thin necks lose a lot of tone quality, especially if they're thin at the heel. He much prefers the sounds generated by thick necks.

I always knew he was using A4 magnets in his humbuckers. They sound really smooth and balanced. I've had his humbuckers in my #1 Les Paul for about seven years. I'm not taking them out.

 

[GoDrex]

Re: Fralin PU magnets

When I tried an A4 magnet, I felt like it had this really classic sound to it, but in my guitar just didn't "sparkle" like I'm used to with pickups with an A5 magnet. I think I just love the high end sizzle that an A5 brings that I didn't notice as much with the A4. I totally could tell how it would be usable - my first thought was for a great blues tone, slide guitar, or a rock rhythm guitarist. But I felt for leads that really scream, the A4 would be lacking a little.

btw - another pickup that use the A4 are the Bare Knuckle Mules
http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/ZH-themule.html

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Fralin PU magnets

Lindy has never hidden the fact that he prefers Alnico 4 in his Gibson style pickups.

Alnico 4 magnets make great buckers FWIW, but there is no "the vintage magnet"...Gibson used alnico magnets...2, 3, 4 and 5 during the 50's and used them with little to no reguard what they were, what they were being used in or anything else...

 

[Titanium]

Re: Fralin PU magnets

When I tried an A4 magnet, I felt like it had this really classic sound to it, but in my guitar just didn't "sparkle" like I'm used to with pickups with an A5 magnet. I think I just love the high end sizzle that an A5 brings that I didn't notice as much with the A4. I totally could tell how it would be usable - my first thought was for a great blues tone, slide guitar, or a rock rhythm guitarist. But I felt for leads that really scream, the A4 would be lacking a little.

btw - another pickup that use the A4 are the Bare Knuckle Mules
http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/ZH-themule.html

GoDrex

The Fralin humbuckers are really a smooth classic PAF. Everything is smooth, warm and balanced on those. I like them as much or more than any humbucker I have tried, but of course there are other flavors of humbuckers I like as well. I really like the Duncan EVH I have had for two years. Holmes humbuckers are really good. I'm probably going to buy a Duncan Distortion pickup soon, so yes I'm going there as well.

The Fralins through a Bogner Ecstasy on 10 don't lack any scream factor... Of course different pickups can dirty it up a little more. I love the Marshall cranked full out on ten sound. If the Marshall isn't enough then add a pedal to the mix.

 

[cvansickle]

Re: Fralin PU magnets

I have Fralin humbuckers in two guitars. I love them. They have plenty of sparkle. I like that they can get hot without compressing.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Fralin PU magnets

I've not tried an A4 mag ((that I know of) but no doubt the dude makes killer strat pickups. The Blues Specials I have in my strat are THE best I've encountered for copping that vintage early 60s strat thing.

He's dead-on about neck's as well. Neck size makes all the difference in the world for tone. I've not owned a thin necked Gibson style guitar ever that sounded "like they are supposed to"- whether it was an SG, Les Paul, Explorer, or V. Doesn't mean they didn't sound good, but they don't sound right.

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: Fralin PU magnets

Not to split hairs, but this chart contradicts what you were told about A4 being the same alloy as A5: http://www.pickupedia.info/Magnets

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Fralin PU magnets

Not to suggest that a "pickupedia" website is the definitive source of information, but

"He said that A4's are actually an A5 that doesn't take a full charge, but are otherwise the same metals" is not a good statement. That being said, the difference between Alnico 4 and Alnico 5 is (in my opinion) mostly replicable by degaussing the A5. Maybe in production at some point we'll choose A4 for a particular task, but right now the Custom Shop is more likely to produce that sound with a custom gaussed 5.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Fralin PU magnets

He said that he thought that in the 1950's Gibson probably bought whatever alnico magnets they could (A2, A3, A4, and A5) and might not have stored all of them properly, and could have accidently degaussed some of them. He's a huge P-90 fan, and said that the original P-90's often had A4's, and Gibson didn't convert over to all A5's until 1963.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Fralin PU magnets

When I tried an A4 magnet, I felt like it had this really classic sound to it, but in my guitar just didn't "sparkle" like I'm used to with pickups with an A5 magnet. I think I just love the high end sizzle that an A5 brings that I didn't notice as much with the A4.

I think many of us are used to the big midrange push of A2's, or the sparkle & powerful low end of an A5, and in comparison, A4's seem kind of understated. I've used A4's in some bridge PU's, when an A5 was too bright, and an A2 was too rounded. I think A4's offer a nice middle ground.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Fralin PU magnets

A4 and A5 are definitely not the same critter. I've degaussed A5 plenty of times and it never sounded like an A4.

 

[dr. ad]

Re: Fralin PU magnets

A4 and A5 are definitely not the same critter. I've degaussed A5 plenty of times and it never sounded like an A4.

in terms of it's composition, A4 is a lot closer to A2 than A5

 

[WG6]

Re: Fralin PU magnets

I've always loved Lindy's stuff, hes a great guy too, tons of no BS knowledge.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Fralin PU magnets

the difference between Alnico 4 and Alnico 5 is (in my opinion) mostly replicable by degaussing the A5. Maybe in production at some point we'll choose A4 for a particular task, but right now the Custom Shop is more likely to produce that sound with a custom gaussed 5.

Well, FWIW, I've degaussed A5 magnets to the same reading levels I got from an A4 magnet and the outcome wasn't the same.

The degaussed A5 still sounded "mid scooped", where tha A4 had full mids, less pronouced bass and a bit less airy.

Maybe this can come due to the wire used (it was SPN), maybe in a PE wound p'up the outcome may be different.

What type of A5 Duncan uses? I normally get the LNG34 grade and I'm quite happy with the sound when NOT fully charged.

The A4 I use is fully charged LNG16 grade. Midsgalore!

YMMV.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Fralin PU magnets

Hi Guys! Just thought I'd throw in my .02 cents. Having been a Duncan dealer and a Fralin dealer and having owned quite a few 50's Gibsons with real paf pickups, including three 50's Bursts and at least three 50's 335's, I have considerable experience with vintage pafs and also Fralin and Duncan (and Tom Holmes) humbuckers.

First, no Fralin A4 humbucker I've owned and used in my own guitars had the sound and feel of a vintage paf. Lindy makes great pickups - but his A4 humbuckers do not get as authentic a vintage tone, IMO, as Duncans and Holmes pickups. Maybe all the old pafs I owned were either A2 or A5 because even when Lindy custom wound me a set of "vintage wound" humbuckers they did not remind me of the 50's pafs I've owned.

Second, this is a generalization, but I hear A4 as giving a humbucker some of the midrange personality of A2 and some of the bass and treble personality of A5.

In a way, A4 gives a humbucker much of the tonal quality of A5 but with more mids.

But A4 doesn't get that same smooth squawk and honk of a great A2 paf, and to my ears, if you're a player like me who wants his chords to be full, round and articulate, A4 neck humbuckers suffer from to much bass ( as do most A5 humbuckers) and can result in a muddy tone if you're playing loud and wanting a clear tone for chords.

In a nut shell, Alnico 2 humbuckers seem to have the tone and personality of the vintage 50's pafs I've owned - not A4 or A5. Which doesn't mean I don't like A4 or A5 - just that A2 gets the tone of the 50's pafs I've owned.

Lew

 

[AudioWonderland]

Re: Fralin PU magnets

I rolled with a set of Fralin buckers in a PRS for a stretch. Never could get them dialed in for my tastes. They were not terrible by any stretch but "vintage" is not a term I would have used to describe them ironically enough

 

[freddarl82]

Re: Fralin PU magnets

Blueman335,
Thanks for posting this - it's a great discussion-starter! I've gotta agree with the "thick neck" part. I have a Historic 57 Goldtop LP with a neck like a baseball bat (with a custom-wound set of Guitarforce AII pickups) and that thing sounds like nothing else!

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Fralin PU magnets

Hi Guys! Just thought I'd throw in my .02 cents. Having been a Duncan dealer and a Fralin dealer and having owned quite a few 50's Gibsons with real paf pickups, including three 50's Bursts and at least three 50's 335's, I have considerable experience with vintage pafs and also Fralin and Duncan (and Tom Holmes) humbuckers.

First, no Fralin A4 humbucker I've owned and used in my own guitars had the sound and feel of a vintage paf. Lindy makes great pickups - but his A4 humbuckers do not get as authentic a vintage tone, IMO, as Duncans and Holmes pickups. Maybe all the old pafs I owned were either A2 or A5 because even when Lindy custom wound me a set of "vintage wound" humbuckers they did not remind me of the 50's pafs I've owned.

Second, this is a generalization, but I hear A4 as giving a humbucker some of the midrange personality of A2 and some of the bass and treble personality of A5.

In a way, A4 gives a humbucker much of the tonal quality of A5 but with more mids.

But A4 doesn't get that same smooth squawk and honk of a great A2 paf, and to my ears, if you're a player like me who wants his chords to be full, round and articulate, A4 neck humbuckers suffer from to much bass ( as do most A5 humbuckers) and can result in a muddy tone if you're playing loud and wanting a clear tone for chords.

In a nut shell, Alnico 2 humbuckers seem to have the tone and personality of the vintage 50's pafs I've owned - not A4 or A5. Which doesn't mean I don't like A4 or A5 - just that A2 gets the tone of the 50's pafs I've owned.

Lew

Hey Lew, glad to see you man!

I hope things are going in the right direction for you.

Yours very truly,

 

[uOpt]

Re: Fralin PU magnets

Well, I have one of those Fralin PAFs and for sure it's different.

Sound-wise, however, I say that A3 sounds like demagnetized A5 and A4 does not.