General wood question about vibration transference

[SJ318]

Hello,
I asked this once, before their was a G.Shop forum. All about the wood. So: I have a sitar. I have a horn bridge, nicely hand cut. It is about 1.5 inches thick. I need to replace the "feet" between the
bone (deer) and the teak (or toon) wood that the body is made out of.
What does anyone think, or have an opinion of the best wood to use between the horn and the body
to transfer vibration. This is critical to getting the sympathetic strings (under bridge horn only) all 13
of them to vibrate and cause them to ring out as loudly as possible, the heart of the sitar. Or as the Indian musician would call "Jawari" or Life of the instrument.
I have talked to all Sitar makers and sellers I can find on the web. The makers rarely come to the phone or just plain won't talk. "Sitar Secrets" and all the nice sellers have no opinion. Which leads me here, as wood is wood and it works on sitar the same way it works on any stringed wooden instrument.
Help a brother out. It takes a lot of time to carve these feet by hand and situate them on the slight curve of the body. Like 2 or 3 days working a couple hours of each day.
Thank you in advance, of course.
Namaste,
Steve Buffington.

 

[Pontiac Jack]

Re: General wood question about vibration transference

Steve,I think rosewood might be the go for your ghodi (correct spelling???).
I used to get dudes in the shop who had been to India and brought back sitars. Usually the tumba would get smashed thanks to the airport baggage handlers. This is a slow and expensive job and most would get cheaply patched up and then used as decorations. The other main repair was the jawari. Only did a few,maybe half a dozen over the years. Didn't like it because it was labour intensive and the owners were usually,ahh.... financially challenged!!
Good luck!

Cheers,PJ

 

[AlexR]

Re: General wood question about vibration transference

I don't think you could possibly pick at random any material type you you would guess to be 'best'. You could go very scientifically and test the natural resonance of the body and the bridge separately with complex testing apparatus......but I doubt that approach has EVER been done even now with sitar makers anywhere.

If you picked a similar wood to the top then I think this would be fine. The sympathetic strings are not magic nor unearthly. They need simply a nice solid connection just like strings on any other instrument. I'm guessing the critical bit is the forming of the shape so that it sits perfectly flush to both surfaces.......is it a glued on part or simply a compression/string pressure join??

 

[KNUCKLHEAD]

Re: General wood question about vibration transference

I Doubt He's Picking at Random , maybe You think Aluminum is the most Resonant wood ?
You seem to be Guessing at your theorum quite a bit .

 

[SJ318]

Re: General wood question about vibration transference

Hi,
Pontiac Jack and AlexR -
Yeah, I have done many Jawari's, and though labor intensive!!! - it is a joy when finished. I fit the feet to the top by deciding which spot is best, gently giving the feet an approximation with a wood file, or very rough metal file, same for the sympathetic strings - then lay down 250 up to 400 grit paper and tape it gently while I rub the ghodi (yes that's fine) and then place it where marked, use a touch of gold shellac pieces (tiny) and let them seat by adding a touch of denatured alcohol. Just enough so the string pressure keeps the ghodi from moving, and can be popped off with a touch of de-natured again.
Some folks drill a couple holes in the top then tap in a small piece of bone to keep the ghodi from moving. I don't care for that. You wind up with too many holes that way.
KNUCKLEHEAD- What you said is correct, I am not picking at random, and I would just use toon wood, but I doubt that it is available here, in Seattle, this is a 75 year old sitar with cracks I've had to fix myself, sand, and paint. That is why I asked you guys who know WAY more about wood than I do. I have at the ready maple, cedar, ebony, really nice mahogany (reddish Brazilian) and even pieces of bone I could fashion to be feet. But wood is the way to go.
So with all that in mind, is rosewood still your choice for vibration transfer?
Thanks so much, again, wood is wood, no matter what kind of stringed instrument you have.
Steve Buffington

 

[AlexR]

Re: General wood question about vibration transference

What I was saying before was that even if you picked a wood for its general characteristics of tone, the bit you actually use can be quite variable from the average. As I have mentioned before on this forum, I have bits of amazonian rosewood that lived a saw kerf away from each other in the parent tree and they tap a different note.
I don't think anything rosewood, maple, ebony or even mahogany would be a bad choice per se. All have characteristics that have been used with success on stringed instruments both electric and acoustic.

The cedar could be a bit soft physically.

 

[SJ318]

Re: General wood question about vibration transference

AlexR,
The feet that used to come with these old Sitars was a soft wood, white like basswood, but no one I talked to knew what it was. Thinking of what you just said, from very soft to very hard like ebony, maybe cedar would be a good compromise between the modern age and the very old world.
Not sure what would be indigenous to that area. Calcutta being the home of the best Sitar and Sarod makers.
Thanks,
Steve

 

[AlexR]

Re: General wood question about vibration transference

I've got a cedar wood blank ready for a Tele build. In researching it there seemed to be no downsides from a tonal point of view, simply from the denting point of view. A thread I just consulted seemed to indicate its hardness was similar to poplar. People on TDPRI building Tele's out of it seem to like its resonance.

 

[kramersteen]

Re: General wood question about vibration transference

I've got a cedar wood blank ready for a Tele build. In researching it there seemed to be no downsides from a tonal point of view, simply from the denting point of view. A thread I just consulted seemed to indicate its hardness was similar to poplar. People on TDPRI building Tele's out of it seem to like its resonance.

Is it white cedar?

 

[SJ318]

Re: General wood question about vibration transference

kramersteen -
Mine is a maroon color. Like red with a hint of orange base.
Quite pretty, with a strong grain line.
Steve

 

[LtKojak]

Re: General wood question about vibration transference

wood is wood and it works on sitar the same way it works on any stringed wooden instrument.

You answered your own question.

HTH,

 

[AlexR]

Re: General wood question about vibration transference

Is it white cedar?

Mine might be white. I haven't actually opened the box it came in yet as I've been consumed with doing the finish of a 335 and a LP.

 

[SJ318]

Re: General wood question about vibration transference

Lt.Kojak,
Not really, as all my bridges are metal to body. ABR into maple or mahogany. You are very good with these things, you are a luthier, you make guitars, correct?
So between the bone and the toon wood, which seems softer, like dark basswood (best analogy I could think of), what would you recommend? Really, these things take a very long time to sand and measure, repeat for hours till it sits correctly, so to try out several types is just not practical.
Any chance you would hazard an educated guess?
Thanks,
Buff