Good ways to memorise scales? and improvisation help?

Coin

Coin

New member
Hello!

Before you say anything, I have used the search button, and there were 14 pages, and I read through the entire first page of first entries and none of it was the same question I'm asking :fingersx:

Does anyone have any good system for learning scales really fast, like some technique or mnemonic?

Also, when I do totally learn a scale, I can't really use it to improvise as I can only seem to go up and down the scale, bending notes sometimes, like Eric Clapton, if his nickname really meant SLOWhand, and his name was Eric Crapton. I can't work out how you turn a scale into a riff or a solo.

I teach beginners part time, but in everything except improvising, which I consider an intermediate technique. I know many advanced techniques too, and can play some hard songs by ear or by learning the notes, but what I reallly want to do is to be able to write my own solos and riffs. And if I can get over my inability of improvisation I can teach up to intermediate-advanced instead of beginners ^_^
 
Re: Good ways to memorise scales? and improvisation help?

I know exactly what you meen,try to not think about the scales!
Making solos is often hard work.Even kirk hammet in metallica sometimes find it hard to make a great solo( year and a half in yhe l.......dvd):)
Try to build the solo on a melody and not a scale. :)
 
Re: Good ways to memorise scales? and improvisation help?

Glad it's not just me, but still, you're meant to use scales to improvise..
 
Re: Good ways to memorise scales? and improvisation help?

I don't know a single scale... i just play by ear.

I see notes as melody, not a part of a scale :)

IMO, using scales to improvize is like cutting and pasting text from other books, to write your own. It just doesn't work!
 
Re: Good ways to memorise scales? and improvisation help?

I understand what you are saying...

But but but, when I jam with others I will have to be BETTER than them just to get respect in a man's world. Meanwhile I seem like an idiot because I can't do anything in a jam. To jam you need to know scales because if a song is in A, you automaticall have all the notes of A at your disposal, instead of having to noodle for hours to create something.
 
Re: Good ways to memorise scales? and improvisation help?

I see... sorry if i were a bit harsh ;)

I just recommend you to play alot, improvize, instead of thinking "scales". If you got an idea of what notes that are on which frets on the fretboard, and how they fit together, then it's a much better thing to know than just knowing what scales they belong in! :)
 
Re: Good ways to memorise scales? and improvisation help?

I would start with pentatonic scales then learn how they "fit" into the major scale. The goal is to get your fingers so use to wear the "good" notes are in any key, that you can think of a melody and have it under your fingers without much thought.
I know what you mean about finding yourself going up and down a scale; I'll find myself doing that with a song I'm totally unfamiliar with.
One thing you can try starting out is too find one note you like for each chord in the progression, then work out little melody lines to fit inbetween those key notes. It also helps to practice singing your solo first, then figuring it out on the fretboard. The goal is to get so familiar with every note and interval that you know exactly where to play a melody from hearing it once.
BTW, I'm nowhere near that level, but that's my goal , anyway.
 
Re: Good ways to memorise scales? and improvisation help?

Coin said:
I understand what you are saying...

But but but, when I jam with others I will have to be BETTER than them just to get respect in a man's world. Meanwhile I seem like an idiot because I can't do anything in a jam. To jam you need to know scales because if a song is in A, you automaticall have all the notes of A at your disposal, instead of having to noodle for hours to create something.
Click to expand...

Funny thing....my former band had a song with a part that was simply G to C repeated a bunch of times. Wouldn't you know it, the E minor pentatonic was perfect for that part. Guess it goes to show that what you wouldn't normally think of works just fine.
 
Re: Good ways to memorise scales? and improvisation help?

If you want to be better than your peers at jams, practice rhythm. Rhythm chops are seriously lacking at some of the jams I have been to lately.
 
Re: Good ways to memorise scales? and improvisation help?

hacker said:
If you want to be better than your peers at jams, practice rhythm. Rhythm chops are seriously lacking at some of the jams I have been to lately.
Click to expand...


Amen to that. If you can lock in with the bass & drums, the band's sound can be huge!
 
Re: Good ways to memorise scales? and improvisation help?

yeti said:
I would start with pentatonic scales then learn how they "fit" into the major scale. The goal is to get your fingers so use to wear the "good" notes are in any key, that you can think of a melody and have it under your fingers without much thought.
I know what you mean about finding yourself going up and down a scale; I'll find myself doing that with a song I'm totally unfamiliar with.
One thing you can try starting out is too find one note you like for each chord in the progression, then work out little melody lines to fit inbetween those key notes. It also helps to practice singing your solo first, then figuring it out on the fretboard. The goal is to get so familiar with every note and interval that you know exactly where to play a melody from hearing it once.
BTW, I'm nowhere near that level, but that's my goal , anyway.
Click to expand...
I was all set to answer this post... and then I discovered that I already did... and apparently my name is yeti :27:

Seriously, this is exactly what I do - of course, I find it's easier with a recording and I get time to rework it until it sounds good. But I figure that each time I do it, I'm getting one step closer to being able to do it live.

And by the way, I have a good friend that has played with top artists for many years - he does amazing things, but he flubs a lot more than he would care to admit. In other words, don't set the bar too high...
 
Re: Good ways to memorise scales? and improvisation help?

I say start by learning the patterns for all the 7 modes of the major scale. Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian, and Locrian are the modes of the major scale.
Ionian= major, happy sounding. Goes with Major and Maj7 chords or major riffs.
Dorian= Minor, kinda bluesy, good for rock. Goes with minor and min7 chords. One of my favorites.
Phrygian= Minor type scale, has a unique minor 2nd. Can be played over straight minor chords. If you start building chords from the scale you can come up with some weird stuff. Change the minor third to a major third and you have the phrygian dominant scale which is a great neoclassical type scale.
Lydian= Used in jazz, major happy sounding, augmented 4th. Can be played over Maj7 type chords.
Mixolydian= Major, used in jazz/blues. Played over Dominant 7th chords. Add a b5 and you have a good blues scale.
Aeolian= Natural minor scale, great rock scale. Works over minor and min7 chords.
Locrian= Pretty weird sounding. Has a minor second and b5. Works over min7b5 chords and similiar minor diminished stuff.

Those are the modes of the major scale and what they are used for. Try to learn all of the positions. Spend a day on each, it will really help you out.

If you have questions I'll be glad to help, I love discussing theory!
 
Re: Good ways to memorise scales? and improvisation help?

I dont know if what i typed was to advanced, since i really dont know your skill level. If you dont know your pentatonic and blues scales you should learn those. If you dont understand the chord and modal theory, I still reccomend you learn the scale positions of the modes. They help alot!!!
 
Re: Good ways to memorise scales? and improvisation help?

Jay 77 said:
Funny thing....my former band had a song with a part that was simply G to C repeated a bunch of times. Wouldn't you know it, the E minor pentatonic was perfect for that part. Guess it goes to show that what you wouldn't normally think of works just fine.
Click to expand...

That worked because your jam was in the key of G major, and Em is the "relative minor" to G major. It's like your playing the G scale, but starting 3 notes "down in the scate " at E.
G A B C D E F# G - G Major
E F# G A B C D E - E Minor
E G A B D E - E Minor Pentatonic

Except you were playing the pentatonic, so only 5 notes out of the entire Em scale.

You probably know this stuff, but putting it out there for those who might not.
 
Re: Good ways to memorise scales? and improvisation help?

Another good improvising tip is to learn all of the notes of chords, learn how to build chords, and how scales and chords are built off of each other. You can use chord tones and arpeggios in solos also. Don't be afraid to step outside of scales and experiment, it might sound good.

And remember...You're always a half step from a right note!
 
Re: Good ways to memorise scales? and improvisation help?

Patterns like this can be fun to play and helpful too.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------12----12~~~~~~------------------
---------------12----12-14-12-14-----14-------------------------------
--12-15-12-15----15---------------------------------------------------
 
Re: Good ways to memorise scales? and improvisation help?

Improving stuff takes time . . . you can't just learn a scale and instantly play it over a song to get a sound. You have to internalize it so that you can hear in your head what you want to play before you play it. Then you'll be able to pick the notes from the scale that you're using that will suit the song you're playing. Just learning the up and down pattern of a scale is only the first step to improvising.
 
Re: Good ways to memorise scales? and improvisation help?

One thing I didn't realize until recently; you actually have 3 minor pentatonic scales to choose from, not just the "relative minor" scale. The relative is the "safest" choice, because it hits prominent notes in I, IV, and V chords, but once you learn your minor pentatonic scales pretty well, try shifting the patterns up or down a fourth from the relative minor positions. You're still in key, but landing on notes that aren't as prominent (or sometimes completely outside) the standard chords.
For example:
C Major - C D E F G A B C
I chord = C Major (C E G)
IV chord = F Major (F A C)
V chord = G MAjor (G B D)
Relative minor Pentatonic:Am - A C E D G A
D minor Pentatonic - D F G A C D
E minor Pentatonic - E G A B D E (This one sounds the most "out", because it has mostly 3rds and 5ths out of the I, IV, and V chords...BUT, if your playing a progression with alot of chords besides the I, IV, and V, this position might do the trick).
The point of all this is, learn your pentatonics to have a safe base to fall back on, then learn the entire Major scale for getting more adventurous with melodies, etc.
After that, there's a ton of "exotic" scales to mess around with too. :)
 
Re: Good ways to memorise scales? and improvisation help?

Yeah, you can play minor pentatonic over aeolian, phrygian, and dorian based progressions.
 
Re: Good ways to memorise scales? and improvisation help?

yeti said:
The point of all this is, learn your pentatonics to have a safe base to fall back on.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with this. If you're soloing over something like a I, IV, V progression, you can always fall back on your I chord pentatonic if you get lost in the changes.

I just found a great site. Read this guys.
http://www.outsideshore.com/primer/primer/ms-primer-4-2.html#LocrianMode
 
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