Great for chords, flat for leads....whaaaa????

75lespaul

75lespaul

New member
It is unreal how some guitars sound great with any pickup in them, and just give you the sound or better of the pickup's description, and others...not so much. My basswood Chibson SG should be a dog by the very description, yet EVERY pickup I've ever put in it sounds wonderful. Big problem is my Agile Hawker Custom with Floyd. Original pickups sounded great for chords/rhythm playing, but leads sounded almost like I was playing a clean amp with no bite or scream. Okay, put my original, first run Brobucker in there. It's been in two other guitars and sounded killer, so I know it's an awesome pickup. Guess what? Same thing. As a matter of fact, didn't really sound much different from the original pickups. So yesterday I put a C5 in it, and when I get my A8 mags, will swap an A8 in. Again, C5 has been in a couple of other guitars and sounds killer. Lo and behold THE SAME THING! Very frustrating. Any suggestions.....including sell the guitar, lol? I love the look, the way it feels, everything, but I have to wonder if it just has some dead wood or the Floyd is a REAL cheapo and is sucking tone?
 
IME 2 things make chords sound good but leads be thin/flat/lifeless. Lack of the right frequency of mids, and something about the guitar construction absorbing vibration and taking the sustain out of it. To solve the latter, things like: a different bridge/tailpiece/nut/sustain block material, different tuners, if it's botl-on, resetting the neck and tightening down; even different strings can help. The former should be covered by changing pickups, but it appears the guitar itself is weighing stronger in the resulting sound.
 
You may just not like the way the guitar sounds. Pickups can only do so much to change the fundamental tone of the instrument. On the pickup side, you could try some highly voiced options (Dimarzios?).

Or, maybe you just haven't found the right settings and height adjustments and whatnot to get tones that make you happy. Try some really weird stuff - put all your EQs at zero and bring it in one at a time, put the pickup really low, run it through a 7 or 10 band EQ, try some different before-amp boosts or preamps.

I have some 85/15s in a PRS Floyd SE and it took me many months to get it to where I'm satisfied. It would just sound terrible in so many scenarios, but the guitar played amazingly and I didn't want to modify it. We're there now, but dang it was a process. In no way would I consider it toneless.

HOWEVER. If the guitar is taking up too much of your energy and you don't really need it around, no shame in letting it go!
 
I had a similar issue with a guitar recently. Even a set of Black Winters sounded blunt in it with a massive brass block underneath the Floyd. I blamed it on the waaay too big routings for the controls and the bridge. It was noticeably louder unplugged and notiveably blunter when plugged in compared to my other guitars. I figured less wood and more air is not good for cutting leads and angry riffs. Ended up selling it. :2:
 
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Not enough scream for leads? Get a Dimarzio Evolution. It's got a very distinct screaming voice to it. I've had it in 3 different guitars (a really dark sounding basswood Ibanez, a bright SG, a typical ESP Eclipse) and it sounded pretty similar in all of them.

But at some point it's worth giving up on a guitar if it doesn't work for you.

Sent from my SM-G970W using Tapatalk
 
I have two Dimarzios in the old pickup box I guess I'll try if the A8 (which just got here) doesn't do the trick. I have an old Super Distortion and a Super 2. The Super 2 I used to use in neck, but never had it in a bridge...not that I remember, anyway. And yeah, I think if I can't solve it with pickups, I may sell it. Dang shame, but I'm not going to put much more into it. I'd hate to start dumping money into it with a new block, this and that, and never come away happy. BTW, it is a set neck. Bottom line like what was said before is I may just not like the sound of the guitar.
 
I have a 7 string that had a similar problem.
I ended up swapping out all of the electronics and starting fresh. It sounded much better, but still I didn’t love it. I think it’s just not the guitar for me.
 
Sounds like it is the guitar itself. I don't know if I'd bother to keep trying pickups. Just get an instrument that inspires you to pick it up.
 
I would bet that guitar is naturally slightly scooped in tone is what it is. probably slightly muted in the 1-2 khz area, It will make chords smooth and sit softer in a mix but seem lacking presence in solos and single note runs -especially in a band mix.

Borrow or buy a little graphic EQ pedal and try to boost at 800, 1000, 2000. individually and then mix together to prove or disprove this. if it's slightly scooped chances are it's boosted somewhere in the 100-400 hz range which is why you like the chords - may try dial that back a bit when testing.
 
Tough row to hoe though especially if it feels so good in your hands. If it's the best feeling axe you've got, definitely worth plugging away at. If it's not competing for your #1 or #2 I would say it isn't worth the continued chase.
 
NegativeEase said:
I would bet that guitar is naturally slightly scooped in tone is what it is. probably slightly muted in the 1-2 khz area, It will make chords smooth and sit softer in a mix but seem lacking presence in solos and single note runs -especially in a band mix.

Borrow or buy a little graphic EQ pedal and try to boost at 800, 1000, 2000. individually and then mix together to prove or disprove this. if it's slightly scooped chances are it's boosted somewhere in the 100-400 hz range which is why you like the chords - may try dial that back a bit when testing.
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+1

Graphic EQ will likely fix this problem. A little bit of 1-2k is a great frequency area to bite through a mix for clear leads.
 
I have only had this issue with a few guitars before luckly. The most notable one was a Schecter Demon 7 string. Playing unplugged you could barely even hear it. I put close to $400 in upgrades in it because I liked the way it looked and felt. But nothing in the end made it better sounding. Pickups, new wiring, bridge, or pedals... Ended up selling it for a huge loss. But I did find another guitar similar later on that was much better.
 
75lespaul said:
It is unreal how some guitars sound great with any pickup in them, and just give you the sound or better of the pickup's description, and others...not so much. My basswood Chibson SG should be a dog by the very description, yet EVERY pickup I've ever put in it sounds wonderful. Big problem is my Agile Hawker Custom with Floyd. Original pickups sounded great for chords/rhythm playing, but leads sounded almost like I was playing a clean amp with no bite or scream. Okay, put my original, first run Brobucker in there. It's been in two other guitars and sounded killer, so I know it's an awesome pickup. Guess what? Same thing. As a matter of fact, didn't really sound much different from the original pickups. So yesterday I put a C5 in it, and when I get my A8 mags, will swap an A8 in. Again, C5 has been in a couple of other guitars and sounds killer. Lo and behold THE SAME THING! Very frustrating. Any suggestions.....including sell the guitar, lol? I love the look, the way it feels, everything, but I have to wonder if it just has some dead wood or the Floyd is a REAL cheapo and is sucking tone?
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When you have a guitar with a smooth top end, that is a good excuse to crank the treble on your amp.

Situations like this can be attributed to an unexpected pot value. did you test each pot with a multimeter? There could be a 250K pot in there.

Guitars that are more acoustically resonant are warmer plugged in. This guitar must sound good unplugged.
 
I’m going to add my support to the graphic EQ plan. Borrow one, or buy a cheap one, or use some software, and find out if it’s just a case of boosting certain frequencies when playing lead.
 
NegativeEase said:
I would bet that guitar is naturally slightly scooped in tone is what it is. probably slightly muted in the 1-2 khz area
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I've read descriptions of basswood as a tonewood having dulled Highs and pronounced Low Mids, whereas what your describing is dulled Mids.

I had a basswood Ibanez RG that had the dulled highs/pronounced low Mids going on.

I eventually gave up on it after several pickup swaps.

I also tried using a graphic EQ pedal to compwnsate but it wasn't enough, at least for my ears.
 
Is the Floyd a POS?


have you tried any pickups with pronounced mids, like maybe a JB?

Also, have you tried playing with string gauge?
 
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Jack_TriPpEr said:
I've read descriptions of basswood as a tonewood having dulled Highs and pronounced Low Mids, whereas what your describing is dulled Mids.

I had a basswood Ibanez RG that had the dulled highs/pronounced low Mids going on.

I eventually gave up on it after several pickup swaps.

I also tried using a graphic EQ pedal to compwnsate but it wasn't enough, at least for my ears.
Click to expand...

Yeah, worth a shot -sounds like you covered it.

Also, any description of a wood based on species is dubious except as a starting point anyways -as the density and grain of woods is so personal to so many factors, like how moist the season was, if it was grown in a riparian zone or not, adjacent tree cover and competition (forcing tree to shed limbs faster, fortify and grow tall faster) etc etc

I could argue that different species growing in the same place adjacent will be more tonally similar sometimes than the same species grown in 2 different places.
 
It’s probably the Floyd. How many springs do you have on it? Some of them suck the life out of guitars.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Well, it's an Agile so the Floyd is probably very low dollar. The whole guitar only cost four and a half. I'm sure the electronics are crap as well. I do have some good electronics to put in it, although I need some caps, and I do have a JB in the old box so if I don't sell it, I may put in new electronics and the JB. I never did put the A8 magnet in the C5, but I've still got a few pickups I can try like the JB, a Super Distorion, a Super II, etc. It plays great, but it wouldn't be in my top 2 guitars. My best playing and hottest sounding believe it or not is my Jackson JS32T Rhoads which plays like a dream and just has "that" sound with a custom custom neck and C8 bridge. Then come my three Lesters, two gibbies and an epi. Then my Chibson SG which I've had for many, many years. The Agile has a feel of its own, and has a very nice quality to it, but if I had to sell it, it's not like I don't have others that could make me forget about it.
 
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