JumpMarine
18 watts of Mayhemologist
Anyone know anything about this tube set? Good/Bad or other? Gearjoneser, I saw this at Revolution guitar's website. Have you checked this out onsite?
Groove Tube Marshall High Gain Kit - SAG (Gearjoneser)
- Thread starter JumpMarine
- Start date
JumpMarine
18 watts of Mayhemologist
Re: Groove Tube Marshall High Gain Kit - SAG (Gearjoneser)
This is from Revolution Guitar's website:
Groove Tube Marshall High Gain Kit - SAG
Product I.D. #TU-GT-MRSHLL-HIGH-GAIN-KIT
Marshall High Gain kit, 2 SAG ECC83S and 1 AX7-MPI tubes optimized for the preamp stage of Marshall style amps. Specially selected from premium Groove Tubes preamp tubes which have been tested in their normal rigorous fashion to meet the GT standard. Special Applications Group (SAG) provides further testing and grading for certain performance characteristics. This three tube set is optimized for your Marshall, Bogner, Rivera, Mesa or British type amps which use (or will benefit from) the ECC83 (12AX7) preamp tubes. SAG-MHG includes two high output preamp tubes to be used in the V1 and V2 positions, and one MPI (matched phase inverter) tube for the V3 position. The matched phase inverter may be a 12AX7 or an ECC83, as it will be matched for it's response curves with the other two tubes. The phase inverter is not part of the tine generation stage, it is a current driver. The V1 and V2 tubes will increase the front end output structure of your amplifier from about 10% to as much as 25% or more, over the typical stock tubes you may have now. Output ranges over 20% need to be discussed as there are specific aspects which need to be discussed. The V3, matched phase inverter tube will assure a balanced output section when used with matched power tubes (highly recommended) which will assure sustain across the entire range of your instrument. The MPI (Matched Phase Inverter) is a SAG selected 12AX7 or ECC83, as this tube is not part of the tone generation stage, but part of the output section and is chosen for its current drive and rise time characteristics. Please note stock picture shown here, the high gain kit you receive may have slightly different readings per tube, but will be very similar.
COST $69.00 (plus $4.00 shipping)
This is from Revolution Guitar's website:
Groove Tube Marshall High Gain Kit - SAG
Product I.D. #TU-GT-MRSHLL-HIGH-GAIN-KIT
Marshall High Gain kit, 2 SAG ECC83S and 1 AX7-MPI tubes optimized for the preamp stage of Marshall style amps. Specially selected from premium Groove Tubes preamp tubes which have been tested in their normal rigorous fashion to meet the GT standard. Special Applications Group (SAG) provides further testing and grading for certain performance characteristics. This three tube set is optimized for your Marshall, Bogner, Rivera, Mesa or British type amps which use (or will benefit from) the ECC83 (12AX7) preamp tubes. SAG-MHG includes two high output preamp tubes to be used in the V1 and V2 positions, and one MPI (matched phase inverter) tube for the V3 position. The matched phase inverter may be a 12AX7 or an ECC83, as it will be matched for it's response curves with the other two tubes. The phase inverter is not part of the tine generation stage, it is a current driver. The V1 and V2 tubes will increase the front end output structure of your amplifier from about 10% to as much as 25% or more, over the typical stock tubes you may have now. Output ranges over 20% need to be discussed as there are specific aspects which need to be discussed. The V3, matched phase inverter tube will assure a balanced output section when used with matched power tubes (highly recommended) which will assure sustain across the entire range of your instrument. The MPI (Matched Phase Inverter) is a SAG selected 12AX7 or ECC83, as this tube is not part of the tone generation stage, but part of the output section and is chosen for its current drive and rise time characteristics. Please note stock picture shown here, the high gain kit you receive may have slightly different readings per tube, but will be very similar.
COST $69.00 (plus $4.00 shipping)
That90'sGuy
DyzaBoyzologist
Re: Groove Tube Marshall High Gain Kit - SAG (Gearjoneser)
So you're essentially paying $75 for 3 tubes? Who in their right mind would purchase one?
So you're essentially paying $75 for 3 tubes? Who in their right mind would purchase one?
Jeff_H
Dean Hardtail Fanologist
Re: Groove Tube Marshall High Gain Kit - SAG (Gearjoneser)
Here's the way I see it. They are testing/matching the tubes to each of those in the set.
Sure each of the tubes are tested individually, but when you buy three random tubes, you never know what the actual gain facor is going to be. Even in a standard production run of tested tubes, the gain factor can range from 90 to 110 on identical tubes. This can/will make a big difference in sound. It sounds like revolution guitar is taking tubes that work well in V1, V2 and the PI slot as COMPLEMENTS of each other, designed for higher gain amps.
It's something that some tone freaks like me would like. To each his own, but it sounds like a cool little service, expecially if you don't have the time to experiment with a bunch of different tubes yourself.
Here's the way I see it. They are testing/matching the tubes to each of those in the set.
Sure each of the tubes are tested individually, but when you buy three random tubes, you never know what the actual gain facor is going to be. Even in a standard production run of tested tubes, the gain factor can range from 90 to 110 on identical tubes. This can/will make a big difference in sound. It sounds like revolution guitar is taking tubes that work well in V1, V2 and the PI slot as COMPLEMENTS of each other, designed for higher gain amps.
It's something that some tone freaks like me would like. To each his own, but it sounds like a cool little service, expecially if you don't have the time to experiment with a bunch of different tubes yourself.
Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: Groove Tube Marshall High Gain Kit - SAG (Gearjoneser)
One thing you've got to know is that GT invested in tube testing equipment that is state of the art, and they've split hairs, so you don't have to. Sure, you can buy the same or similar brands from other distributors, but it's likely that GT keeps the cream of the crop tubes, throws away the bad ones, and sells the mediocre ones to other distributors. Todd at Revolution has met with Aspen Pitman and seen for himself how rigid the tolerances are for their performance testing. I normally buy Svetlana or JJ power tubes that are matched sets, but NON Groove Tube labeled. For preamp tubes, I've began to really love the GT stuff. A few days ago, I put GT mullard copies in the 1 and 2 position on my Matchless, along with JJ E-34L power tubes.
Amazing! It's the best I've ever heard my Chieftain sound. On my Ecstasy, I've got Svetlana EL-34's and the preamp stages are GT Chinese, which are killer. The other positions like the clean, FX driver, and Phase Inverter are balanced JJ ECC83's.
My opinion is that if you're going to own high performance 'anything' whether it's amps, guitars, or cars, you may as well equip them with the very best. We all agree on equipping our guitars with Duncans or other highend pickups. I always put the best tune-up parts in my truck, and use the best tubes I can find for my amps.
You end up saving money in the long run, not to mention getting the most from your gear. Next time I visit revolutionguitar.com's warehouse in W. Los Angeles, I'll bring my Bogner, and ask him if I can compare this "Marshall kit" to what I currently have.
I'm not sure I'll buy it, but I at least want to see what the deal is.
One thing you've got to know is that GT invested in tube testing equipment that is state of the art, and they've split hairs, so you don't have to. Sure, you can buy the same or similar brands from other distributors, but it's likely that GT keeps the cream of the crop tubes, throws away the bad ones, and sells the mediocre ones to other distributors. Todd at Revolution has met with Aspen Pitman and seen for himself how rigid the tolerances are for their performance testing. I normally buy Svetlana or JJ power tubes that are matched sets, but NON Groove Tube labeled. For preamp tubes, I've began to really love the GT stuff. A few days ago, I put GT mullard copies in the 1 and 2 position on my Matchless, along with JJ E-34L power tubes.
Amazing! It's the best I've ever heard my Chieftain sound. On my Ecstasy, I've got Svetlana EL-34's and the preamp stages are GT Chinese, which are killer. The other positions like the clean, FX driver, and Phase Inverter are balanced JJ ECC83's.
My opinion is that if you're going to own high performance 'anything' whether it's amps, guitars, or cars, you may as well equip them with the very best. We all agree on equipping our guitars with Duncans or other highend pickups. I always put the best tune-up parts in my truck, and use the best tubes I can find for my amps.
You end up saving money in the long run, not to mention getting the most from your gear. Next time I visit revolutionguitar.com's warehouse in W. Los Angeles, I'll bring my Bogner, and ask him if I can compare this "Marshall kit" to what I currently have.
I'm not sure I'll buy it, but I at least want to see what the deal is.
Curly
Moe's Bluesman
Re: Groove Tube Marshall High Gain Kit - SAG (Gearjoneser)
the guy to ask about this is Myles Rose over on Guitar Amplifier Blueprinting, since I believe he had a hand in making up those sets ...
also, you can catch him over on the Expert Forums of Guitar Player Mag, in the guitar section .. sorry no links right now
you can also look at Groove Tubes' site, and do a search for "SAG" (special applications group)
the guy to ask about this is Myles Rose over on Guitar Amplifier Blueprinting, since I believe he had a hand in making up those sets ...
also, you can catch him over on the Expert Forums of Guitar Player Mag, in the guitar section .. sorry no links right now
you can also look at Groove Tubes' site, and do a search for "SAG" (special applications group)
Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: Groove Tube Marshall High Gain Kit - SAG (Gearjoneser)
I think I met Myles once, at Westwood Music in LA. The bottom line is that most good quality preamp tubes will sound just fine in almost any amp. This 'hair splitting' that we're talking about is the result of people taking good amps and fine tuning them with a particular compliment of tubes, then passing this knowledge onto others, so they can avoid having to go through the same hassle, to arrive at the same result.
Personally, I think different types of amps, made for differing styles of music, all sound best with a different set of tubes. It's not till you sit down for a few hours, pulling and plugging numerous tubes, that you discover which ones perform the best.
The pre's that always stand out, to me, are most GT's, Sovtek LPS, Telefunken, and NOS like GE, Jan Phillips, and Amperex.
I think I met Myles once, at Westwood Music in LA. The bottom line is that most good quality preamp tubes will sound just fine in almost any amp. This 'hair splitting' that we're talking about is the result of people taking good amps and fine tuning them with a particular compliment of tubes, then passing this knowledge onto others, so they can avoid having to go through the same hassle, to arrive at the same result.
Personally, I think different types of amps, made for differing styles of music, all sound best with a different set of tubes. It's not till you sit down for a few hours, pulling and plugging numerous tubes, that you discover which ones perform the best.
The pre's that always stand out, to me, are most GT's, Sovtek LPS, Telefunken, and NOS like GE, Jan Phillips, and Amperex.
JumpMarine
18 watts of Mayhemologist
Re: Groove Tube Marshall High Gain Kit - SAG (Gearjoneser)
Thanks GJ and everyone else for the input!
Thanks GJ and everyone else for the input!
JumpMarine
18 watts of Mayhemologist
Re: Groove Tube Marshall High Gain Kit - SAG (Gearjoneser)
No I haven't, but my Marshall JCM 601(el34's, 60watt) has a pretty good gain channel already. I am however having my SD-1 modded by John Spina to add another level of tone. Can't wait to get that back!
Stratcat said:
No I haven't, but my Marshall JCM 601(el34's, 60watt) has a pretty good gain channel already. I am however having my SD-1 modded by John Spina to add another level of tone. Can't wait to get that back!
Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: Groove Tube Marshall High Gain Kit - SAG (Gearjoneser)
Stratcat does have a point. A $75 overdrive like a Marshall OD may do more for you, tonewise, than changing out $7 pre tubes for $25 pre tubes.
I tend to obssess over things just for a day, dial it in the way I like it, then leave it and forget about it.
Stratcat does have a point. A $75 overdrive like a Marshall OD may do more for you, tonewise, than changing out $7 pre tubes for $25 pre tubes.
I tend to obssess over things just for a day, dial it in the way I like it, then leave it and forget about it.
JumpMarine
18 watts of Mayhemologist
Re: Groove Tube Marshall High Gain Kit - SAG (Gearjoneser)
Makes sense to me, I just fired up my marshall with my modded DS-1 and holy crap, I didn't think that it could sound that good. Can't wait to get my SD-1 back now! Spina is an artist and a gentleman.......Gearjoneser said:
