guitar builders: how to get the best natural sustain?
- Thread starter Davey
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Humphrey Bear
New member
Re: guitar builders: how to get the best natural sustain?
Neck Through construction with a string-through-body bridge system.
Neck Through construction with a string-through-body bridge system.
Re: guitar builders: how to get the best natural sustain?
use the widest, longest neck tenon possible - that's what I do and I get my single cutaway guitars to sustain (acoustically) for around 15 seconds
I'd also recommend a decent headstock angle (at least 7 preferrably 12-14) (i use 12)
I like it for sustain and strength of joint
and a bridge that provides enough string tension
cheers
use the widest, longest neck tenon possible - that's what I do and I get my single cutaway guitars to sustain (acoustically) for around 15 seconds
I'd also recommend a decent headstock angle (at least 7 preferrably 12-14) (i use 12)
I like it for sustain and strength of joint
and a bridge that provides enough string tension
cheers
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: guitar builders: how to get the best natural sustain?
Personally, I think a steep string angle behind the bridge saddles and when possible, behind the peghead nut, seats the string firmly against the saddles at one end and the nut at the other end and is CRUCIAL to getting superior sustain.
With my Fenders, if the bridge saddles are barely raised, and especially if the allen screws are sticking above the top of the saddles and digging into my hand when I mute, I'll often shim a Fender neck to get more tilt, thus requiring raising the guitar's action at the bridge and resulting in superior sustain because the string angle is increased behind the saddles when the action is raised.
Shimming a Fender neck creates an air gap under the neck between the neck and body...but the sustain (and tone) usually improves due to the factors I mentioned.
Lew
Personally, I think a steep string angle behind the bridge saddles and when possible, behind the peghead nut, seats the string firmly against the saddles at one end and the nut at the other end and is CRUCIAL to getting superior sustain.
With my Fenders, if the bridge saddles are barely raised, and especially if the allen screws are sticking above the top of the saddles and digging into my hand when I mute, I'll often shim a Fender neck to get more tilt, thus requiring raising the guitar's action at the bridge and resulting in superior sustain because the string angle is increased behind the saddles when the action is raised.
Shimming a Fender neck creates an air gap under the neck between the neck and body...but the sustain (and tone) usually improves due to the factors I mentioned.
Lew
StefanM
New member
Re: guitar builders: how to get the best natural sustain?
The wood has a lot to do with it. It's a common thought that the denser the wood (or other material), the better the sustain, but Adrian Legg in his 'make your own electric guitar' book [paraphrased, can't remember exact title] quite explicitly says he doesn't believe this, and give the example of 2 identical Strats, one ash, one alder, and the lighter alder one sustaining better.
Having said that, my tele (pretty much solid Tas Oak, which is the sonic equiv. of Ash)weighs a tonne (4.5kilos) and has amazing sustain. The heavy bridge & string through body, like Lew says, probably has a lot to do with it, though I reckon having a tight neck-to-neck-pocket join has a lot to do with it too. Adrian Legg in 'Customising your Electric Guitar' talks about how his experimental heavy brass bridges, combined with string-through-body, improved sustain.
Another thought - I always thought that part of the reason Les Pauls have a maple cap was to improve sustain.
The wood has a lot to do with it. It's a common thought that the denser the wood (or other material), the better the sustain, but Adrian Legg in his 'make your own electric guitar' book [paraphrased, can't remember exact title] quite explicitly says he doesn't believe this, and give the example of 2 identical Strats, one ash, one alder, and the lighter alder one sustaining better.
Having said that, my tele (pretty much solid Tas Oak, which is the sonic equiv. of Ash)weighs a tonne (4.5kilos) and has amazing sustain. The heavy bridge & string through body, like Lew says, probably has a lot to do with it, though I reckon having a tight neck-to-neck-pocket join has a lot to do with it too. Adrian Legg in 'Customising your Electric Guitar' talks about how his experimental heavy brass bridges, combined with string-through-body, improved sustain.
Another thought - I always thought that part of the reason Les Pauls have a maple cap was to improve sustain.
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: guitar builders: how to get the best natural sustain?
The maple cap is to add some brightness to the overall tone...not, so much, to aid in sustain. There were some Les Paul Customs made in the 50's without the maple cap...they were all mahogany, like the Les Paul Recording Model Les Paul used in the 70's with the low impedence pickups. Anyway, they sound mellower without the maple top. lew
StefanM said:
The maple cap is to add some brightness to the overall tone...not, so much, to aid in sustain. There were some Les Paul Customs made in the 50's without the maple cap...they were all mahogany, like the Les Paul Recording Model Les Paul used in the 70's with the low impedence pickups. Anyway, they sound mellower without the maple top. lew
StefanM
New member
Re: guitar builders: how to get the best natural sustain?
I knew the cap was for brightness, but I've read in some books that it was for sustain too. Books are often wrong though.
The whole glued neck/bolt neck thing is interesting... I'd always heard that glued in necks were supposed to sustain better than bolt on, but then some people on this forum say that glue necks suck for sustain (??).
JohnJohn - what are your thoughts on 2-part epoxy? (arydyte) That's what I used on my axe. It's kind of bookmarked, but not in the conventional way - one long piece of timber cut in half and folded over to make a thicker piece, so the seam runs horizontally down the middle of the whole body.
FWIW, I have an interesting little theory about the neck pocket contact. I recently took my neck off (for the first time), and it was really hard to take off. Really difficult, it was stuck. Had to really pry and waggle. The oil I reoil the guitar with every now and then had seeped in around the neck/body joins, set hard, and filled in the gaps. I seem to think it doesn't sustain as quite as well since I disturbed it and put the neck back on.
Lewguitar said:
I knew the cap was for brightness, but I've read in some books that it was for sustain too. Books are often wrong though.
The whole glued neck/bolt neck thing is interesting... I'd always heard that glued in necks were supposed to sustain better than bolt on, but then some people on this forum say that glue necks suck for sustain (??).
JohnJohn - what are your thoughts on 2-part epoxy? (arydyte) That's what I used on my axe. It's kind of bookmarked, but not in the conventional way - one long piece of timber cut in half and folded over to make a thicker piece, so the seam runs horizontally down the middle of the whole body.
FWIW, I have an interesting little theory about the neck pocket contact. I recently took my neck off (for the first time), and it was really hard to take off. Really difficult, it was stuck. Had to really pry and waggle. The oil I reoil the guitar with every now and then had seeped in around the neck/body joins, set hard, and filled in the gaps. I seem to think it doesn't sustain as quite as well since I disturbed it and put the neck back on.
Re: guitar builders: how to get the best natural sustain?
Guys its really interesing to read some of your views on guitar making and just would like to add my 2 cents. Wood has a large factor in guitar building but the main importance is how you make the guitar by this I mean manufacturing techniques and how good you are at achieving this. I remember about 8-9 years ago Taylor guitars proved the ultimate answer and they actually made one of their guitars from a pallet that was dumped in their skip behind the factory and it sounded as good as or better thatn their production guitar proving that providing you make it accurately and paying attention to fit and finish you will have a sonically good sounding guitar.
I was lucky to digest as much of this in my 25 years of guitar making to dismiss the facts of neck-thru, set neck or bolt on being better than one another. Sometimes guys don't be baffled by all this science bull**** it don't make a huge audible difference. Just to recap I did a guitar show here in the UK about 1996 and one guy who was trying to be the be all and end all of guitarists approached my stand and started to go into an enourmous amount of detail about sustain and basically what he thought was the best and how he loathed bolt on neck guitar as I had some on my stand. When I asked him quite couteously what his favorite guitarists were he replied " oh you know thw old school Clapton, Beck, Hendrix" I then informed him that these all played at most time bolt neck Fenders which he then looked astounded and walked away with his tail between his legs, furthermore proof that sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees if you know what I mean. Kammo1
Guys its really interesing to read some of your views on guitar making and just would like to add my 2 cents. Wood has a large factor in guitar building but the main importance is how you make the guitar by this I mean manufacturing techniques and how good you are at achieving this. I remember about 8-9 years ago Taylor guitars proved the ultimate answer and they actually made one of their guitars from a pallet that was dumped in their skip behind the factory and it sounded as good as or better thatn their production guitar proving that providing you make it accurately and paying attention to fit and finish you will have a sonically good sounding guitar.
I was lucky to digest as much of this in my 25 years of guitar making to dismiss the facts of neck-thru, set neck or bolt on being better than one another. Sometimes guys don't be baffled by all this science bull**** it don't make a huge audible difference. Just to recap I did a guitar show here in the UK about 1996 and one guy who was trying to be the be all and end all of guitarists approached my stand and started to go into an enourmous amount of detail about sustain and basically what he thought was the best and how he loathed bolt on neck guitar as I had some on my stand. When I asked him quite couteously what his favorite guitarists were he replied " oh you know thw old school Clapton, Beck, Hendrix" I then informed him that these all played at most time bolt neck Fenders which he then looked astounded and walked away with his tail between his legs, furthermore proof that sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees if you know what I mean. Kammo1
Davey
Goliath of Tone
Re: guitar builders: how to get the best natural sustain?
thx for the replies guys, was interesting reading.
will bear this in mind when i build my own guitar (or order a custom one lol)
i pretty much want a floyd axe (thats why i'm going for a jackson dinky type or a kelly) what's your take on that? it'll be a cheap one cos i cant afford something out of the US
i'll prolly go for the JS30 dinky (i am really let down that jackson didnt equip the new JS30 models with floyds)
so how can i make it sustain better (if that's possible)
thx for the replies guys, was interesting reading.
will bear this in mind when i build my own guitar (or order a custom one lol)
i pretty much want a floyd axe (thats why i'm going for a jackson dinky type or a kelly) what's your take on that? it'll be a cheap one cos i cant afford something out of the US
i'll prolly go for the JS30 dinky (i am really let down that jackson didnt equip the new JS30 models with floyds)so how can i make it sustain better (if that's possible)
Re: guitar builders: how to get the best natural sustain?
John John you are correct bro. It was an amazing guitar and it was made from a pallet they were going to throw out can you believe that. Generally the important rule is that is you machine or handwork your project try as much as possible to work as close to engineering tolerances as possible and you won't go far wrong. Kammo1
John John you are correct bro. It was an amazing guitar and it was made from a pallet they were going to throw out can you believe that. Generally the important rule is that is you machine or handwork your project try as much as possible to work as close to engineering tolerances as possible and you won't go far wrong. Kammo1
