Guitar Setup Challenge...Bridge Too High

C

cactus jack

New member
I have a Warmoth VIP (PRS Copy) which I need to crank the bridge super high. Currently, it's higher than any other fixed bridge guitar I've ever had. This also forces me to raise the bridge pickup super high. The guitar plays OK, but I do have tuning stability issues. From what I can tell the nut, and tuners are rock solid so I keep circling back to the bridge. As shallow as it is I think the bridge being sky hig looks silly too. Also, I'd like to install some Triple Shot rings, however, the midsection of the VIP is flat so the bridge humbucker would look dumb as heck in the flat ring. It would basically look like it's sitting on top of the guitar.

Thoughts on how I can improve the setup? Have you run into this before? Maybe it's not an issue, but aesthetically, and possibly tuning stability wise, I'd like to get it dialed in.

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Re: Guitar Setup Challenge...Bridge Too High

Why do you need it so high? Buzzing?

Is the neck also a Warmoth? What is your action like...how much relief, if any?
 
Re: Guitar Setup Challenge...Bridge Too High

OP, you not getting the answers you want over on the Warmoth forum?

I'll say it again - how does it play? Don't worry about what it looks like.

I'll say it again - looked at a Les Paul lately? The type of bridge you have sits up high.

Just play the thing.
 
Re: Guitar Setup Challenge...Bridge Too High

ICTGoober said:
OP, you not getting the answers you want over on the Warmoth forum?

I'll say it again - how does it play? Don't worry about what it looks like.

I'll say it again - looked at a Les Paul lately? The type of bridge you have sits up high.

Just play the thing.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the replies. I'll post some measurements up and maybe we can spot a setup error.

Regarding how it plays, it plays OK. Not great, and certainly not as nice as any of my 4 Les Pauls. Also, I did need to raise the bridge due to buzzing, but again I'll post some measurements. Love the Warmoth site, but when Warmoth customer service says my set issue is because I have a tall pickup ring, that tells me it's time to get a few more opinions. Not the best pics, just ones I had handy, but yes the bridges on my LPs (Standards and Traditional) vary in height. However, none of them approach the height of the VIP. Something is off.

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Re: Guitar Setup Challenge...Bridge Too High

The bridge pickup ring looks square instead of angled. I would try a different but proper Les Paul ring for a start. Fret buzz is a setup issue that won’t be solved by that alone, however.
 
Re: Guitar Setup Challenge...Bridge Too High

From the pics, both pickups look too high/close to the strings. I’m with others who have asked about neck relief, etc. Do you know how to measure relief and adjust truss rod?


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Re: Guitar Setup Challenge...Bridge Too High

I might be off as per usual, but at least the guys will correct me and I'll learn from it... Is it a bolt-on (sorry, I was too lazy to check out the model)? If yes, then I'm thinking neck angle... But go with what others have suggested first, the neck relief &co measurements. Also, is the exact issue that it cannot go lower or it could, but then its unplayable due to buzzing?
 
Re: Guitar Setup Challenge...Bridge Too High

nexion218 said:
I might be off as per usual, but at least the guys will correct me and I'll learn from it... Is it a bolt-on (sorry, I was too lazy to check out the model)? If yes, then I'm thinking neck angle... But go with what others have suggested first the neck relief &co measurements. Also, is the exact issue that it cannot go lower or it could, but then its unplayable due to buzzing?
Click to expand...

Thanks for all the suggestions. I ordered some proper luthier tools last night and will remeasure and triple check everything. I'll post the results Friday when the tools arrive.

The guitar is a bolt-on. I just checked Warmoth's site and found a potentially interesting piece of info. For this particular bridge, Gotoh 510, to work properly the neck pocket must be angled 1.5-3*. I'm not sure in which direction, but they clearly state the angle is required. They also state they will properly route can be performed for an additional $10, but the site implies the pocket will be properly routed if the Gotoh bridge is selected. Maybe the neck pocket was never routed properly? Another measurement to take!

Stay tuned for pics and measurements coming asap.
 
Re: Guitar Setup Challenge...Bridge Too High

Typically the angle Warmoth is speaking of is opposite what you would need (i.e. it would increase the string tilt away from the body surface), so it's likely your body is already angled if you ordered it for this particular bridge setup originally.

I want to know more about the buzzing you experienced. Where was it occurring? All frets? All strings?

I'm fairly certain this is a setup issue and unlikely to be a manufacturing issue (though anything is possible). Even then, the bridge really isn't *that* high, in my opinion.
 
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Re: Guitar Setup Challenge...Bridge Too High

You exaggerate quite a bit, but aesthetics is in the eyes of the beholder.

The height of the bridge (that small difference between what you have and, say a Les Paul) will NOT create tuning instability problems. By far the most contributing factor to tuning instability is the fret slots in the nut, with cheap tuners coming in a close second.

You can create a negative neck pocket angle with shims from StewMac (just put them in backwards). Looks like 1-2 degrees would work for your guitar.

Triple shots would work just fine. Your concerns about the bridge pup looking like it is on top of your guitar is unfounded, but I get what you are saying. Changing the neck angle will allow you to lower your bridge and pickups.

Check for possible needed truss rod adjustment. Get your nut properly slotted and lubed. Make sure strings are properly wound on your tuners. Intonate. Then see if stability has improved.
 
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Re: Guitar Setup Challenge...Bridge Too High

Did he say the board was flat

Fret the first and last frets
Use the string as a straight edge
Is the string touching all the frets?

There should be some relief or space under the middle ones
Not much but not touching

That would tell you if the neck has a back bow
Which would cause the symptoms described

This is what Goob is referring to
 
Re: Guitar Setup Challenge...Bridge Too High

Thanks for all the help guys. As I've mentioned I'm a rookie when it comes to setups (obviously), and really appreciate your insight. You're teaching me a lot and your time and insight is very much appreciated.

I'll pop the neck off this weekend to check the pocket, and also pick up a set of feeler gauges to get the best measurements possible. For now, I've remeasured following suggestions in previous posts. Also, I used the fret rocker to check the frets and found all frets were essentially level. Barely, if any, rocking was noticed. Here is where I'm currently at:

General neck relief:

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Placed a capo at the 1st fret and the 15 fret, which is the closest to the neck joint I could get. Measuring at the 6th fret my best estimate without feelers is .0157":

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With the capo at the 2nd fret the string is laying on the 1st fret with no space:

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With the capo at the 1st the string height at the 12th is 1/32 or .0315":

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Re: Guitar Setup Challenge...Bridge Too High

Could be I've made everyone's ignore list - but mentioning it again, wouldn't a shim under the 'opposite' (closer to the headstock) end of the neck pocket force the bridge lower in setup if all you want is the bridge to be lower, regardless of the cause?
 
Re: Guitar Setup Challenge...Bridge Too High

ICTGoober said:
I still think the truss rod is too tight.
Click to expand...

Actually NO. There is considerable bow in the neck creating too much string relief. This means the truss rod needs to be tightened to get rid of the bow and get the neck straight.
 
Re: Guitar Setup Challenge...Bridge Too High

With capo on 1st and 15th frets there is way too much bow to your neck.

1). Tighten your truss rod to remove that bow and get your neck straight.
2). Adjust bridge height to give better string action (1/16" to 1/8" at 21st fret)
3). Check that the nut is slotted correctly

If your bridge still seems too high, you will need to shim (reverse shim) your neck pocket.
 
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