Guitarist on a Budget - Marshall MA50 vs. JCM 2000

[Jazzfiend101]

Hi guys, I need some good advice for the budget guitarist here. I'm a gigging musician, nearly 23, have had some experience with amps here and there. The first one I started on was a Crate Palomina Class A 16 watt amp, and I didn't appreciate it for what it was until I got a 100watt Marshall MG100 years ago. Back then, in my head I used to think more gain = good tone. Definitely bit that one after a few months of never being able to turn that thing up past 3.

Skip ahead a few years, I'm a guy on the scene with a band, and we're playing everything from smaller venues, to club gigs, to big frat parties, and after having sacked the MG100 awhile ago for a Crate Vintage Club 50 2x12 combo, I thought I was in tube heaven... but I'm not. I'm a guy on a budget, but I've been saving up enough for awhile to maybe step out of my comfort zone, if the price is right, and if the gear is ROADWORTHY baby.:nervous:

In my cover band we do mostly classic rock gigs, with a few softer songs around, such as Matchbox 20, and Counting Crows. But our crowd pleasers are the Aerosmith tunes, the Journey songs, the AC/DCs, Zeppelins, Guns N Roses tunes, you get the idea.:evil:

I'm ready to step up to a newer, more reliable amplifier than the Crate VC50. It was real. It was fun. But it wasn't real fun, know what I'm sayin?:firing:

I've heard over the years a little bit of advice that's stayed with me, and it's something along the lines of, "If you're shooting for a specific sound from a specific brand of amps, you should probably shop something in that company, otherwise you're gonna keep buying the "other" stuff and you may find yourself frustrated that you aren't getting the sound you want with the ease that you should be getting it." Now, I know that I don't need to go out and buy a Fender Super Reverb just to get a good clean sound, and I know that I don't exactly need a Marshall amp from the 1980s to get a heavy metal sound, right?

So here's where I'm at. I've been around my town. I'm not playing many gigs that would honestly justifiy having a 100 watt halfstack. I tried researching a bunch of lower watt amps, such as 15 watt Fender Champs, 16 watt Crate Palominos (I LOVE THEM now), 40 watt Peaveys, etc. I've even gone to my "cliche" standards of Marshall 50 watt combos. Unfortunately, I find that most of these combos, while they're easier to lug around, usually come in just a single speaker combo, mostly. So I've narrowed it down to, I need a head, and I need it to drive either a 4 x 12 or a 2 x 12. Then I narrowed it down to a Marshall amp and that's that.

I have a dad who works at a Guitarcenter who can get me great deals on new gear, but he sees used stuff come in all the time. In my quest for the right sound at the right price I settled on the new Marshall MA 50 head. If any of you are familiar with it, it's a newer model, and it's angle is selling a perhaps more affordable amp centered around Marshall Valve tone. I've checked out a few reviews, and they are mixed. I've also seen some Youtube demos, and they check out okay. I've played a 100watt version of it... and it was pretty damn loud. I couldn't get it past 3 without the guys in the store pulling their hair out. The 50watt goes for about $699, but my dad can get it about $200 cheaper, brand new.

He sends me a iPhone pic of this older amp they got in the shop recently. A JCM 2000 DSL 50. It's a 50 watt screamer with two channels that both have a boost option (so a psuedo 4 channel amp... am I right on that?) It's sitting in the shop about $699 on its own, but unfortunately, there are no employee discounts for used gear. He tells me I should probably buy the JCM 2000 over the MA50. He checked with the guys in the store and they all had their opinion that the MA50 was a garbage amp aimed to underage children that were just getting their feet wet with tube amps.

What I see on the Youtube for the JCM 2000 is nothing but metal demos. That's about it. All I see are Pantera covers and dropped tuning brashers. I like metal. Pantera is cool. All about it and stuff... but I'm not playing that live. Aerosmith. That's what's putting money in my pocket. I went on the Marshall forums and they are all like, "Nah man, you need to scrap both and save up for a Vintage Modern." Believe me, I've had plenty of friends who've told me, "Dude, you need a Plexi. Dude, you need a JCM 800." I've also heard everything from the JCM 2000s were the "death of Marshall," and I've heard MA series amps explode after the first 15 minutes of use, as well as the MA series are some of the most reliable amps around. In the same token, I've read stories of people having dropped their JCM 2000s on the ground by accident and they play just fine. Durable.

Any of you seasoned vets have any experience, and any good advice? I'm kinda in a tone bind with limited time to spare, and I've got gigs lined up through November... and I'm tired of playing next to a guitarist who's daddy gave him a Plexi and who's tone is way better than mine... Ladies don't dig the sound of a bumble bee flying out of my speakers. Help, anybody?

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Guitarist on a Budget - Marshall MA50 vs. JCM 2000

I owned a JCM-2000 TSL 122 2x12 100W 3-channel combo for about 10 years. I was the original owner. I just sold it a month or two ago to get an Ampeg Super Rocket, which I've wanted for years.

I liked the Marshall way better than the 900 or 800, but it was really a "niche" amp for me. (I used to own a 900 head/cab too, which I sold to get the 2000 combo.) Nothing does Marshall like a Marshall. But over all, the amp was too complicated, fragile, and finicky...just like a Jag. When it is tuned up and doing it's thing, there is nothing like it. But it wasn't a good general-purpose amp for me. Too much work and worry.

I started playing using a small Fender Princeton Reverb and the Ampeg V series (V-4), and though I have strayed from time to time (Marshall, Mesa, Traynor, a Super Reverb), I always come back to that V-4, and also to the more recent Ampeg Diamond Blue amps. None of my V amps have ever needed anything done to them, and I never spend time having to search for a suitable tone. They simply work, all the time. I dropped my V-4 head from an overhead storage loft onto the concrete floor 12 feet below once. All I had to do to fix it was kick the cabinet back to square and replace a handful of shattered tubes. Coming from an amp like this, the Marshall seemed like a good fart would blow it over, and it required more maintenance (and even a few repairs...on an under 10-year-old amp, while my 30 year old one is sitting next to it working perfectly without ever having a single trip for repair or service in it's life.)

In short, I feel that having that Marshall was great on a sonic level, but I was not of the disposition to fiddle with a bunch of knobs and have an amp that I had to take to the shop regularly in order to get it sounding it's best. It was a very "fiddly" amp to me. And for being so fiddly, there was really not a ton of variety tonally.

For you, I would suggest an Ampeg VT-40. The amp is similar in concept to a Fender Super Reverb, but much more rugged, ballsy, crunchy-clean, and tonally versatile. It is a large combo of medium wattage. Both it and the Super are 4x10 configuration. Without going to a boutique amp, nothing will be more rugged than an old Ampeg. And IMHO, their tonal quality is hands down the best. They are extremely versatile (easy to do a Fender-esque sound or a Marshall-eqsque sound, or an Orange-esque sound), yet they also have their own very distinctive Ampeg sound. If nothing else, they are the greatest amps ever made for rhythm, IMO. They will set you back a couple of feet when you hit that first chunky chord at a loud live show.

 

[stevie_bees]

Re: Guitarist on a Budget - Marshall MA50 vs. JCM 2000

I would definitely get the DSL over the MA50. A better all round amp, with some good options. The MA50 is Marshall's 'foot in the door' valve amp, and is pretty good as far as that goes, but in the long run I think you'll be happier with the DSL.

 

[d1dsj]

Re: Guitarist on a Budget - Marshall MA50 vs. JCM 2000

I'd go with the DSL too. Great sounding amp, lots of guys use that amp for classic rock covers and it does the job more than adequately.

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Guitarist on a Budget - Marshall MA50 vs. JCM 2000

I had a DSL 50 and it has it's drawbacks (can't footswitch between the two modes on a given channel, shared EQ means it's hard to use it as a channel switcher) but it can do a cool kinda-plexi-ish imitation, and a nice JCM800 imitation, all while having it's own thing going on. It NEEDS to be loud to get the goods though. 3 on the master is loud enough to do small performances with and that's when it begins to give it up. 5 is where it gets cooking.

I only sold it because 50W was wayyy to much for my bedroom. Using it on 1 all the time was just not doing it for me. but if you can use it to it's potential it can be great. I'd say forget about it being a channel switcher, and use the first channel as the whole amp, with a boost pedal or two. That's where I'd say 80-90% of the fun in that amp is.

 

[metalmachine]

Re: Guitarist on a Budget - Marshall MA50 vs. JCM 2000

I didn't really read you entire post but let me day this. I would play a line 6 spider before I would play the MA. I am not joking. The 2000 series are good amps though. If you are on a budget consider the carvin x 100b for classic rock

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Guitarist on a Budget - Marshall MA50 vs. JCM 2000

DSL. fo sho.
MAs are just nasty.

 

[DankStar]

Re: Guitarist on a Budget - Marshall MA50 vs. JCM 2000

I had a DSL 50 and it has it's drawbacks (can't footswitch between the two modes on a given channel, shared EQ means it's hard to use it as a channel switcher) but it can do a cool kinda-plexi-ish imitation, and a nice JCM800 imitation, all while having it's own thing going on. It NEEDS to be loud to get the goods though. 3 on the master is loud enough to do small performances with and that's when it begins to give it up. 5 is where it gets cooking.

I only sold it because 50W was wayyy to much for my bedroom. Using it on 1 all the time was just not doing it for me. but if you can use it to it's potential it can be great. I'd say forget about it being a channel switcher, and use the first channel as the whole amp, with a boost pedal or two. That's where I'd say 80-90% of the fun in that amp is.

kinda glad to hear all this. I was getting close to picking up a local one for like $525, but I really don't need all that power/volume when I play in my underwear out of a man closet.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Guitarist on a Budget - Marshall MA50 vs. JCM 2000

MAs' recently got an upgrade and a re-voicing, the newer ones I would definitely rock if I was able to get the volume up where it needs to be. I would not bother with the previous MAs.

Upgraded/revoicing or not, I'd still rather have a DSL.

 

[mwalluk]

Re: Guitarist on a Budget - Marshall MA50 vs. JCM 2000

DSL, no more needs said. Search for DSL users unite thread or there's a couple in the AMP REVIEW THREAd. Read reviews.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Guitarist on a Budget - Marshall MA50 vs. JCM 2000

Between the two, DSL for sure. But, yes. Like any Marshall, it only sounds GREAT cranked. Another problem I had with mine, even with the VPR engaged. This one (TSL 122) was better at low volumes than most Marshalls, however.

However, really give those VT-40's a look. They are solid and great sounding amps.

 

[Simon_F]

Re: Guitarist on a Budget - Marshall MA50 vs. JCM 2000

I've had a DSL 50 for a couple of years now and I gig with it quite a lot. I love the 'green' classic gain channel in crunch mode (it's comparable with my JMP 2104), but I haven't been able to dial it in to get a tone I like out of both channels without having to change the EQ.

I think it's a great amp in that there is at least one great Marshall tone in there for every guitarist, but I haven't been able to work it as a channel switcher.

The green channel in crunch mode will get you those classic rock tones. The green channel in either mode takes pedals really well so you have plenty of boost options that way. I tend to stay off the red channel.

 

[mwalluk]

Re: Guitarist on a Budget - Marshall MA50 vs. JCM 2000

Here's my review of a DSL

Marshall JCM 2000 DSL 100

The JCM 2000 line is the working man’s amp and worthy of the title WORKHORSE. It’s rugged, durable and rock solid. The DSL is capable of producing sonic overtures from previous Marshall Generations at a budget friendly price. The channels are designed to range from a Plexi to Hot Rodded JCM 800 to beyond.

However, It will NEVER be in the ball park of any of those Marshall staples. What it is though, it is capable of getting you close sound wise. It won’t get spot on, you will notice the differences, but for comparison sake it’s close enough.

The JCM 2000 line was a great line for what it’s worth. It’s a shame they discontinued it. They are respectable amps and nothing to be ashamed of. On the other hand, Street Cred and bragging rights do not come with the amp. It is what it is and what it is, is a good amp.

This amp has potential to be a monster if you’re willing to invest in it. Being that this is a middle of the road amp, Marshall decided to cheap out on a few things that would put it in the same league as the SL+, 800, Plexi, JMP, etc.

The question then becomes is it worth putting in roughly around the same amount used to purchase it into upgrading it? Considering the resale value (regardless of upgrading or modding it) is only around $600-900.

A simple addition of a choke, upgraded PT and OT, tube swap and swap out the cheap electronics to quality parts, you would have a Sig amp. For the amount of time and finances involved, you would be able to purchase a different amp that has all that and still have money left over.

Now don’t misconstrue my words, stock this amp is good. It’s just that it could be better.

Anyways, this is a 2 channel amp. It has the standard EQ set (which happens to be shared), Presence, Add Bass button, Sweep Mids button, Reverb and “boost” buttons per channel. The clean is very useable. Sprinkle on a touch of chorus/reverb/flange and it’s fairly lush sounding for a Marshall.

Do not expect a Fender Clean or a VOX clean, rather expect a good clean coming from a Marshall. When a certain song requires a bright, chimmey clean, it can get the job done. Adding gain and/or boost button, the amp transforms to 800 like. You get a nice edge of break up crunch as you add gain you get the Marshall Signature Crunch. You want AC/DC, it’s there. GNR? It’s there too.

Slamming the front end with an OD or Distortion pedal is tonal bliss. It’s hard to describe but it’s def. organic growl which is very useable for more modern rock tones. Majority of players only use channel one on this amp.

Channel 2 has its moments. It’s more compressed, gained out madness. It’s Marshall wanting to be metal and trying to verge into Recto/5150 territory. It needs to be boosted, to get into metal territory. It’s not a metal amp though. This amp makes you work for it. Dialing back the gain to around noon will get you close to the hot rodded 800 sound.

The problem is the shared eq. What you do with one channel effects the other. Adding bass to one, makes the other too boomy. Adding mids/highs makes the other too bright. There’s no trade off. You can’t get a great tone without sacrificing the tone on the other.

The JCM 2000 line is a great line for the gigging musician on a budget wanting the Marshall sound. It will give you a solid rock tone, but will never fill your desire for having something more. It may not be the right amp for you, but it’s the right amp for right now that will get you where you need to be.

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Guitarist on a Budget - Marshall MA50 vs. JCM 2000

Look for specials. I got my JVM cheaper from a dealer close to me than what they were selling an MA head for. Brand new. At first I was confused and thought maybe the MA was better in some way. When I looked it up, the decision was a no brainer. Maybe go for the 210H or the 205H. 2 Channels but three modes per channel.

It's a long shot but you mind find some really good deals as I did.

 

[UberMetalDood]

Re: Guitarist on a Budget - Marshall MA50 vs. JCM 2000

I used to own a 2003 JCM 800 reissue which I loved for two years. I sold it and went on an amp tour that cost me a fortune. I went through so many expensive amps including Bogner Shivas, Mesa Boogie Mark V, Engl, etc... One of my favorite amps was the Steve Morse signature head which I miss, but I couldn't get the bright crunchy tone I wish it was capable of producing. In the end, I was only satisfied when I settled down with a Marshall 1923 head (DSL 50 85th anniversary edition).

Maybe most people would think that I settled for an inferior amp, but I'm very happy with it. I have a great, great overdrive sound, a nice clean channel, and real spring reverb. It can growl like a JCM 800, smooth like an overdriven plexi, bright and crunchy the way a lot of people set them in youtube videos, and sweet bluesy crunch. It's front end is like an ambassador for pedals. You can plug any kind of pedal into it and it will sound good. The FX loop works wonders with my Line 6 M9 effects.

When I first got it, it was bright and piercing. I checked the bias and it was set pretty cold so I biased it at a neutral bias. The difference was spectacular. It came with JJ's and they sounded very good, but it got even better with Mullard preamp tubes and SED EL34's. The Mullards are better for clean and bluesy overdrive sounds, but the JJ's are better for distortion sounds and are quieter than the Mullards. Since I like to boost my orange channel with an OD, I like the Mullards better.

I own a 1987x plexi, had a JVM and a JCM 800, and of course still have my 1923. I never use the plexi because frankly it's just too loud. The DSL is my go-to amp always. It has a nuance which I think most people tend to overlook. If you don't balance the gain with the volume and EQ it will not sound smooth or growly like you want in a Marshall. That's not going to happen at lower volumes without an OD either. Most of the time peoples' DSL's sound buzzy to me.

The MA50 came out and I toyed with the idea of getting one. I played one for probably about 2 hours on a few occasions. It has a pretty good sound but it's not on the same level as the DSL. If you're considering a lower cost Marshall, then I strongly recommend the JMD over the MA. I actually like the JMD a lot considering that it's not in the vein of Marshall UK made amps. It not only has a greater variety of sounds than the MA, it blows the MA tone away.

My suggestion is get a DSL 50 and bias it with good tubes. If you want to go the other way, get the JMD.

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Guitarist on a Budget - Marshall MA50 vs. JCM 2000

I do remember I had to retube and carefully bias before the DSL sounded "huge" like I thought it would when I bought it. Hooray for bias test-points!

I also tried the C12 mod or whatever it's called but ended up going back to stock there. So if the OP or any readers start googling DSL50s and they read that stuff about mods, know that it's not some holy grail must-do mod to make the amp useable. It's not a huge difference.

 

[Jazzfiend101]

Re: Guitarist on a Budget - Marshall MA50 vs. JCM 2000

Guys thanks a lot for all the input, I really appreciate it. I think, since I've got a bit of money in, that I'm gonna go in and buy it, as I've limited time before my band starts to pickup shows again. So wish me luck and thanks again!

 

[Jazzfiend101]

Re: Guitarist on a Budget - Marshall MA50 vs. JCM 2000

and by, buy it, I mean the JCM 2000, that is. Definitely appreciate the reviews and feedback.

 

[eschoendorff]

Re: Guitarist on a Budget - Marshall MA50 vs. JCM 2000

I have a DSL 50. I love the thing. It covers a lot of ground and does so in a credible way.

Mine is from 1998 and is completely stock. No mods. Not necessary. Run it 16 ohms out into a 16 ohm 4x12 and you're good to go.

Someone said that it isn't a metal amp - and that is absolutely ridiculous. This amp can definitely do metal. With a boost, it's even better. Put it this way: if you cannot do metal with a DSL, you don't rock hard enough.

Now, if you want your metal to have a different character to the sound, then that's a different story.

Blues, classic rock, modern rock, you name it. The DSL does it. Other amps might do it a little better, but in the middle of the gig, the ladies won't care. :beerchug:

 

[mwalluk]

Re: Guitarist on a Budget - Marshall MA50 vs. JCM 2000

Someone said that it isn't a metal amp - and that is absolutely ridiculous. This amp can definitely do metal. With a boost, it's even better. Put it this way: if you cannot do metal with a DSL, you don't rock hard enough.

Now, if you want your metal to have a different character to the sound, then that's a different story.

It all depends on your definition of Metal (80s hair metal, iron maiden metal, black sabbath, pantera, nu metal, etc) and what you look for in it.