Half airbucked Norton

[Bowtomecha]

I just found out that the dimarzio Norton is air bucked on one side with a thin plastic spacer between the magnet and the slugs. Does anybody know of any other dimarzio humbuckers that come like this? Apparently the AT-1 is also?

 

[freefrog]

Maybe the link below will help (?) ...

https://www.dimarzioforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=15830.0

 

[eclecticsynergy]

I never knew the regular Norton was half-aired. Thanks.

 

[jeremy]

me either. so dual resonance is same turns of different wire, air is space between the magnet and poles, whats the virtual vintage?

 

[Rex_Rocker]

me either. so dual resonance is same turns of different wire, air is space between the magnet and poles, whats the virtual vintage?

Virtual Vintage is slugs inserted in hidden holes on the bottom of the bobbins to raise the inductance without rasing the output.

 

[jeremy]

gotcha, thats what i thought but wasnt 100% sure

 

[nienturi]

Apparently the AT-1 is also?

I remember from your source GPD, AT-1 and JB share very close bode plots. So it may not be half aired.

 

[Chistopher]

Frequency response doesn't tell us anything about magnets. The Air mod was invented to make an A5 magnet respond similar to an A2.

Dimarzio's literature says it uses airbucker, but I don't know whether they count half air as airbucker or not

 

[ehdwuld]

I thought the aired Norton was called
Air Norton and the regular was just Norton

It was my understanding that the pickups
had the designation of Air in the name

Is that mistaken?

 

[jeremy]

Frequency response doesn't tell us anything about magnets. The Air mod was invented to make an A5 magnet respond similar to an A2.

Dimarzio's literature says it uses airbucker, but I don't know whether they count half air as airbucker or not

i know they say that, but i dont hear an air'd a5 and a2 sounding that close. i de-air'd a 36th anniversary paf and swapped a5 to a2 and i like it better. was good stock too, but the swap pushed it closer to what i like

 

[freefrog]

i know they say that, but i dont hear an air'd a5 and a2 sounding that close.

+1.

Airing a A5 gives an approximation of A2 by weakening the flux but doesn't bump the inductance like A2 does with its higher ferrous content...

Then there's a question of attack and dynamics.
The lab-minded Net currently tends to consider AlNiCo alloys as being not that different, in such a way that a simple change of height settings under the string would cancel any difference between an A5 and an A2... I'll just state that noticeable differences of transients have been measured here with magnets of various alloys, in pickups whose coils were stimulated electrically. But I don't plan to argue about that... ;-)

 

[eclecticsynergy]

+1.

Airing a A5 gives an approximation of A2 by weakening the flux but doesn't bump the inductance like A2 does with its higher ferrous content...

Then there's a question of attack and dynamics.
The lab-minded Net currently tends to consider AlNiCo alloys as being not that different, in such a way that a simple change of height settings under the string would cancel any difference between an A5 and an A2... I'll just state that noticeable differences of transients have been measured here with magnets of various alloys, in pickups whose coils were stimulated electrically. But I don't plan to argue about that... ;-)

+100 I've had argu... er, discussions with one experienced pickup aficionado who has a scientific bent, years of experience and good lab equipment. He stubbornly insists there's no difference in tone, texture or attack between the various alnico grades, and claims to have proven this conclusively, beyond any possibility of error.

According to him, the only difference is field strength, and any other perceived differences are due entirely to confirmation bias or setup differences.

It was almost hard for me to believe this guy has actually played guitars before & after a mag swap. Still, I recognize that some of the biggest differences might not be obvious in a dead-clean, low-volume environment - which is pretty much required for consistent & accurate lab analysis.

I very much appreciate the huge amount of data that he's shared over the years, along with the dedication and countless hours of work it represents.
Still, I find it a bit annoying that he says his conclusion is incontrovertible fact and therefore anyone who disagrees is mistaken, and perhaps superstitious.

 

[ehdwuld]

What difference I perceive is minimal

no one in the audience can tell
Or cares if they could

If it sounds good
it is good

I try out all the voodoo from the interwebs
I find little more than marketing in the "Mojo" claims

my old stuff is worth more than your new stuff

 

[jeremy]

for me its a high end and mid range thing with a2 vs a5. i love a5 rods in strat pups, especially neck and middle. but for lower output buckers its all a2 or a3. even an air'd a5 has a high end that i dont care for most of the time

 

[Bowtomecha]

+1.

Airing a A5 gives an approximation of A2 by weakening the flux but doesn't bump the inductance like A2 does with its higher ferrous content...

Then there's a question of attack and dynamics.
The lab-minded Net currently tends to consider AlNiCo alloys as being not that different, in such a way that a simple change of height settings under the string would cancel any difference between an A5 and an A2... I'll just state that noticeable differences of transients have been measured here with magnets of various alloys, in pickups whose coils were stimulated electrically. But I don't plan to argue about that... ;-)

I think Dimarzio addresses that by putting those iron slugs in some of their pickup bobbins.

 

[Bowtomecha]

I thought the aired Norton was called
Air Norton and the regular was just Norton

It was my understanding that the pickups
had the designation of Air in the name

Is that mistaken?

the Norton has that one spacer by default so I’m guessing they don’t consider calling it aired. Anything called Air has a gap on both sets of poles. It really makes me wonder what a fully unaired Norton sounds like.

Im thinking about the Paf Pro Lite and the Fred Lite which were used on the Frank Gambale Ibanez model like 30 years ago. Those were reported to be aired, before they began using the Air name for pickups. I haven’t seen disassembled pickup photos but maybe they used the spacer on the Norton instead of the tubing or whatever.

 

[freefrog]

I think Dimarzio addresses that by putting those iron slugs in some of their pickup bobbins.

Absolutely.
Now, if one swaps the A5 for an A2 of the same size and mass in such a pickup, it should still increase the inductance, helping IMHO to understand the mid range thing evoked by Jeremy.

 

[Bowtomecha]

Absolutely.
Now, if one swaps the A5 for an A2 of the same size and mass in such a pickup, it should still increase the inductance, helping IMHO to understand the mid range thing evoked by Jeremy.

That’s something I didn’t think about. Between the virtual vintage, airbucking, and dual resonance methods various dimarzios have, they probably throw off the expectations of magnet swaps. One reason why Duncans seem ideal for swapping.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I think Dimarzio addresses that by putting those iron slugs in some of their pickup bobbins.

That's a whole other patent. The Virtual Vintage thing. Sometimes they combine it with the Airbucker thing. Sometimes they don't. They also use it in Ceramic pickups.