Hand pain and neck shapes - what gives?

[alex1fly]

I'm sure this has been discussed before. In fact, Google has rendered me thousands of threads to browse. But I've never actually experienced it before... until now. So opinions/input/experiences would be great!

I should add that I'm not terribly picky about guitar necks in general... I've put in significant time with several 4 & 5 string basses, a skinny Squier neck, a run-of-the-mill Fender Strat neck, a PRS SE wide/thin neck, and over the last year a wide/flat Gibson SG neck.

In my quest for a Telecaster, I've brought home two contenders: a new MIM (Player Series) and a knock-off relic that seems to copy the old blackguard style (forgive me, still learning Tele terminology) with a relic'ed butterscotch nitro finish, fat maple neck with rubbed off nitro, black pickguard, vintage tuners, 3 saddle ashtray bridge w/ brass saddles, traditional S/S pickups. The MIM came from Sweetwater and has a modern C neck; smooth, easy to play, boringly compliant, feels very similar to my Strat neck. The second Tele came from a local shop and blew me away with it's unbelievable tone and vibes. But after an hour of playing I started getting hand, wrist, and forearm pain on my fretting side. So okay, I read up and am trying to loosen my fretting hand's grip, let the guitar lead me, all that business. The relic's neck is undoubtedly thicker, but not THAT much thicker. I'm betting it's a U style given the period-specific dedication of the other elements on the instrument. So yes, I don't need to hurt myself and I should try another neck on there. I guess the intention of my post is... does .15 mm really make that much of a difference in comfort, pain vs no pain? I'm going off of this chart here, as I don't have digital calipers or something with which to measure the necks precisely: https://artisanguitars.com/blogs/new...-neck-profiles

But now, I can get about 10 minutes with the relic'ed Telecaster before little aches start to appear in my fretting arm/hand/wrist. In contrast to every other instrument I've ever owned which I can play for hours. What gives? How long should I keep at it with the relic'ed axe before committing to a neck swap or other modes of problem-solving?

 

[ErikH]

I had this exact same problem. It wasn't the profile but how the guitar sat on me because of the lack of gut cut. I don't have a problem with Strats at all. Les Pauls don't have a gut cut but they sit differently on me. I've had a few Telecasters that made my forearm and wrist hurt like that. One of them being an awesome American Standard that played/sounded like a dream. Hated to sell it but it was so good I'd rather some else who loves Tele's play it. So yeah, I bet it's the angle of the whole guitar on your body that's doing it (top being out more than the bottom due to no gut cut or having a gut in general...LOL).

As for neck shapes in general, thin Jackson and Ibanez necks bother me a lot, but I find the Wizard III neck to be pretty comfortable as it has some more wood on it. I'm used to fat necks anyway. I love the neck on my Squier Classic Vibe Strat.

 

[alex1fly]

I had this exact same problem. It wasn't the profile but how the guitar sat on me because of the lack of gut cut. I don't have a problem with Strats at all. Les Pauls don't have a gut cut but they sit differently on me. I've had a few Telecasters that made my forearm and wrist hurt like that. One of them being an awesome American Standard that played/sounded like a dream. Hated to sell it but it was so good I'd rather some else who loves Tele's play it. So yeah, I bet it's the angle of the whole guitar on your body that's doing it (top being out more than the bottom due to no gut cut or having a gut in general...LOL).

As for neck shapes in general, thin Jackson and Ibanez necks bother me a lot, but I find the Wizard III neck to be pretty comfortable as it has some more wood on it. I'm used to fat necks anyway. I love the neck on my Squier Classic Vibe Strat.

Is it really that simple? I mean I get the geometry and the extra wrist strain from the Tele not folding in to your body as much, but why couldn't you just scoot the bottom of the body further away from you and create more tilt angle?

Maybe I'm unconsciously trying to angle the guitar more towards me, like I'm used to, and that's creating my wrist/forearm pain.

It's weird, I've put about 20 hours into playing my MIM Tele with no contours at all and didn't get any pain. This relic'ed Tele though hurt me pretty quickly and the neck size is the only significant variable. Though I'm making assumptions on the other dimensions since it's not an actual Fender... hence my general wondering about whether a few MM here and there can actually nudge someone into the PAIN ZONE.

All my guitaring lately has been sitting, if that adds any context.

 

[Mincer]

I'd certainly get the opinion of a professional who can look at what your doing and understand how your body position might have to change. They may suggest ways you can alter your approach so you don't play in pain, and might have a few exercises to do now and then.

 

[ErikH]

Is it really that simple? I mean I get the geometry and the extra wrist strain from the Tele not folding in to your body as much, but why couldn't you just scoot the bottom of the body further away from you and create more tilt angle?

Maybe I'm unconsciously trying to angle the guitar more towards me, like I'm used to, and that's creating my wrist/forearm pain.

It's weird, I've put about 20 hours into playing my MIM Tele with no contours at all and didn't get any pain. This relic'ed Tele though hurt me pretty quickly and the neck size is the only significant variable. Though I'm making assumptions on the other dimensions since it's not an actual Fender... hence my general wondering about whether a few MM here and there can actually nudge someone into the PAIN ZONE.

All my guitaring lately has been sitting, if that adds any context.

Sadly, I didn't come to the conclusion until after I had sold that Tele and then later on, tried another one like a dummy....LOL. But yeah, for me it was that simple. Two strikes against a Tele that I won't get another one. 1 - the way it folds (or not) in to my body and 2 - that the neck always wants to make it sit straight across my body instead of the neck tilted up some. A Strat solves both of those problems for me.

 

[ehdwuld]

I had this with an Ibanez
And it could well be the way it hangs
and elbow position
bring your elbow forward so that it is even with your body and see if that helps

I found this by lying on the floor with my guitar
to get the arm position right

 

[Securb]

This is a great video on the subject. It is long but full of great information

 

[PFDarkside]

I had this with an Ibanez
And it could well be the way it hangs
and elbow position
bring your elbow forward so that it is even with your body and see if that helps

I found this by lying on the floor with my guitar
to get the arm position right

I think this is a contributing factor, and that the neck shape and size forces other portions of your body into different positions to compensate. For me its the shoulders that make me twist my wrist a little bit.

 

[alex1fly]

This is a great video on the subject. It is long but full of great information

Steve is the man.

I think what I'm doing is some combination of overextended wrist angle and gripping too hard with my fretting hand. The fatter neck is also encouraging me to do weird things with my fretting thumb, which in turn contorts my entire fretting apparatus. I'm telling y'all... this relic'ed Tele neck is deeper than my Precision Bass neck. Probably the thing to do is run, don't walk, away from the fat neck and go to something I know is comfortable like the Fender modern C.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

A Tele does hang very differently. Always feels like you're shooting from the hip.

Certainly might make small differences in a neck far more significant in terms of discomfort.

 

[PFDarkside]

Steve is the man.

I think what I'm doing is some combination of overextended wrist angle and gripping too hard with my fretting hand. The fatter neck is also encouraging me to do weird things with my fretting thumb, which in turn contorts my entire fretting apparatus. I'm telling y'all... this relic'ed Tele neck is deeper than my Precision Bass neck. Probably the thing to do is run, don't walk, away from the fat neck and go to something I know is comfortable like the Fender modern C.

The great thing is that with all the builders and finishers, you can have a guitar that looks like a 62 Strat relic but feels like a JEM or a guitar that looks like a Jackson Soloist and feels like an old Tele.

 

[Aceman]

You are assuming it is the shape of the neck. I don't know...for example:

Do you always play it after the other guitars? It could just be that fatigue in the hand sets in then
Do you play the others? If not it could be tendonitis from age/arhtritis or whatever setting in
Are there chemicals on the relic that are causing an immune response local to the hand in some way?
Perhaps it isn't just the neck, but a number of ergonomic factors that combine to be different enough
Lets not discount anxiety at this point. You are looking for the pain and you find it - faster


Could be a lot of different things or a combination. And as always - do NOT seek the medical advice of a bunch of yahoos on a forum. See a physician.

 

[NegativeEase]

If a neck is Skinny AND Narrow I get pains -especially songs requiring a lot of thumb pressure.

Weirdly, a skinny neck alone or a narrow neck alone doesn't bother me.

 

[beaubrummels]

Neck should be at a 45 degree angle, and your thumb tip should rest on the center of the back of the neck, not wrap around. Also, rest your fretting fingers on the strings and very gently press down just enough to get a solid ringing tone and no more. Any tighter grip than that is wasted energy and will ruin your hands - because once the string contacts the fret, the notes won't get any clearer with more downward pressure.

 

[Bogner]

Everything works together. Not sure your playing style but the fretboard radius could be a culprit as well as scale length and string gauge. If you bend a lot, etc it could push things just over that edge and cause you problems. Additionally, what is your playing position? Standing or sitting. The guitar should remain in the same position whether you are standing or sitting for the most part. Many players play sitting down with the body on one leg. This forces them to twist a bitand can cause back, neck, shoulder issues as well. If you sit and play in a classical position a lot of the ergonomic issues are alleviated because of the balance in your playing position. If you wrap your thumb and are playing a longer scale, heavier string that feels tight and that headstock is out there away from your body all the tension is on the wrist and will move into your forearm. It can be very painful. Stretching can help a great deal. I purchased a Theragun which is like a pulsating hand help massage machine and it has worked wonders on my arms and hands. Some of my hand/arm issues stem from motorcycle racing but at times they migrated into my guitar playing. The things I mentioned were solutions for me to be pain free. If you have a tendon or ligament type problem or similar there is a wonderful solution that will solve it that most doctors are oblivious to. There is a paper thing, yet very strong sheath that envelopes some ligaments and tendons in your forearms. When they become aggravated they swell within the sheath (or imagine a sausage casing). after enough irritation there is no more expansion from the sheath (casing) yet the ligaments and tendons are becoming more aggravated and there is no expansion, no release....only pain. That sheath can be removed and you never have the problem again. Motorcycle races get the surgery often for arm pump. Same problem essentially and solves everything. If what I did hadn't solved my problems I was going to have it done. I apologize for the long response but hopefully something I said helps you. If the guitar is a problem, I hate to say this but get rid of it. It's not worth suffering over when there are other guitars that sound like they work for you. Good luck and if you want to dig deeper on the medical stuff, pm me and we can talk more. Good luck!

 

[Lovegun]

I'm not too picky about neck shapes and thicknesses. To me it is a combination of the neck and the body shape that causes pain sometimes. It effects the playing posture and I've had to let some guitars go because of it.

 

[alex1fly]

I'm not too picky about neck shapes and thicknesses. To me it is a combination of the neck and the body shape that causes pain sometimes. It effects the playing posture and I've had to let some guitars go because of it.

I'm thinking this is it. I play guitar several hours a week, including another Telecaster, and this new Tele with a gigantic neck is the only guitar that's ever caused problems. I didn't play it yesterday, but did play my SE Custom for about an hour and already the pain is gone. So we'll see. A new/familiar neck on the new Tele will be a good experiment.

Funny, because I knew that gear shopping was hazardous to my financial and mental health... guess it's hazardous to my physical health as well! :arms:

 

[Aceman]

Everything works together.

This

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

From my experience, even small differences in neck shape could cause playing discomfort. For example, I currenrly own four Ibanez ART models where the neck specs are supposed to be the same, with only the top wood or finish color supposed to be the only difference between them. But each one has slight differences in how thick the C shape of the neck is. The one with the thickest neck does make my fretting hand ache after playing it for awhile. Sadly, I think I'm going to sell it because of that.

 

[Lovegun]

I'm thinking this is it. I play guitar several hours a week, including another Telecaster, and this new Tele with a gigantic neck is the only guitar that's ever caused problems. I didn't play it yesterday, but did play my SE Custom for about an hour and already the pain is gone. So we'll see. A new/familiar neck on the new Tele will be a good experiment.

Funny, because I knew that gear shopping was hazardous to my financial and mental health... guess it's hazardous to my physical health as well! :arms:

Good that you*re sorting this out. It's frustrating sometimes how small differences can have a huge impact on hand tension when playing. I had a thumb injury when I was 11 and wrestled with my younger brother. His ankle hit my left thumb and it dislocated my thumb from the second joint. At the moment it pointed backwards and they didn't treat it right at the hospital. So as a result I can't play barre chords with my thumb and some guitars cause me pain because how I have to position my thumb. The problem area for me in some guitars is from the seventh fret upwards especially the area around the neck joint.