Having problems with an Old Duncan Invader

[Fernas]

Hi! i'm new to this board .... my name is fernando and i'm from buenos aires, argentina.....

i've got a problem here...

I just bought an old SD Invader USED and i connected it to my guitar (ibanez rg470) and tried it .... i thought it sound cool ... but then, a friend came to my house with a really cheap guitar with a new duncan invader ... just to see the differences .... i was really surprised when i plugged his guitar ... it sounded AWESOME! much louder and brighter than my guitar .... i'm really worried and kinda upset.....

What could be the problem here? is my invader a neck invader and it sound weaker because i use it on the neck? (i cant realize the position, because it only says "Seymour Duncan Pickups" on the back ... and it has a sticker that says "B M" .. don't know what that means .....

Is my p'up kinda broken? ..

Please, help me out ....

note: I used the Split schematics for hum-sing-hum with 1vol, 1tone for my guitar ... the original schematic of my guitar, can be found Here

THANKS!

 

[Kac]

Re: Having problems with an Old Duncan Invader

did you say you put your invader in the neck spot?

and welcome to the board! :amish:

 

[Fernas]

Re: Having problems with an Old Duncan Invader

Hi ... no .. i putted it to the Bridge position .... but i've noticed thast the 1st string is on the border of the bottom screw ..... i don't know if you understand me ... i mean ... the string is NOT in the middle off the screw ... it pass over the bottom of the screw .... it seems that the pickup is smaller than it should be ...

is this pickup a neck pickup? ...

 

[Fusion1]

Re: Having problems with an Old Duncan Invader

the string is NOT in the middle off the screw ... it pass over the bottom of the screw ....

That's because the Invader only came in standard spacing due to the fact that it uses larger than normal pole pieces. Supposedly the magnetic field is so strong it wouldn't matter if the string was off the fretboard it would still pick up the vibration hehe. Anyhow sounds like maybe the solder joints may not be as solid as it needs to be.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Having problems with an Old Duncan Invader

There is a neck version and you might very well have one, especially since you say it sounds less bright than your friend's Invader, because there is a capacitor in the pickup itself shunting some of the treble to ground.

Remove the tape surrounding the pickup and if you see a capacitor in it, it is definitely a neck model -- just cut it out with wire cutters, brightness problem solved. It will then be much brighter but not nearly as loud and beefy as your friend's bridge version so you would still have that problem.

Another way to find out is get a multi-meter and measure the DC resistance. The neck model is 7.2k ohms, the bridge 16.8k ohms.

The only other possibility is that you do have a bridge model but one of the coils isn't working but I'm betting it's a neck model.

The pole pieces on an Invader are so huge that it's hard to imagine a string-spacing too wide for it.

 

[Fernas]

Re: Having problems with an Old Duncan Invader

That shold REALLY be the matter? ... i mean ... if the solder joints are not solid as they should be ... will it make the pickup be weaker?? i think that should be the problem then ... it putted the pick up in by " a quick way" because... im a few days i will trade my guitar for another so i didnt soldered the joints .... i use a little of wire that was allready soldered .... but ... the pickup DOESNT make ANY noise at all ... it's REAL quiet ... even with gain turned ALL UP!! it really quiet ....

anyway ... how can you realise if the pickup is broken? i mean ... if one of the coils are failing or something like that?..

and the last question .... suppose that the p'up is a neck one .... that why it sound really weak on bridge position?

Thanks a lot guys!

 

[Fernas]

Re: Having problems with an Old Duncan Invader

Another way to find out is get a multi-meter and measure the DC resistance. The neck model is 7.2k ohms, the bridge 16.8k ohms.

THAT's exactly what i wanted to try out ... HOW should i do it?

THANKS!

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Having problems with an Old Duncan Invader

Plug a short cord into your guitar, switch to bridge pickup only, and turn all knobs up to 10. Then take the multi-meter, set it for measuring DC resistance (ohms), take the probes and put one probe on the tip of the other end of the cord (not plugged into the guitar) and the other probe on the "sleeve".

 

[Fernas]

Re: Having problems with an Old Duncan Invader

i've just takken the tape off ... and realised some cables had a tape on itr ... looks like it has a capacitor before and the old owner has taken it off ....

damn i bought this thing online at a bid site like ebay .... anyway .. im going to try with the multimetter and .. see what happens...
thanks a lot

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Having problems with an Old Duncan Invader

To find out if one of the coils is bad, plug the guitar into your amp and select the bridge pickup. Take any magnetic piece of metal (like a screwdriver) and tap the poles on one coil and then tap the poles on the other coil.

If one of the coils is bad, you will hear some tapping through the amp but it won't be nearly as loud as the other coil. If both sound the same, both coils are fine.

 

[Fernas]

Re: Having problems with an Old Duncan Invader

ok ... i've donde that .... every pole sounds just like the others... it seems that theres no coils problem .... thanks god... and it seems its a neck p'up ... cuz the other duncan (my friend got the bridge version) poles sound really louder than on my duncan .... the question is ... ¿is there anything i can do to make it sound more like a Bridge version? or is it imposible?

Thanks a lot guys for your help!

 

[3th3r]

Re: Having problems with an Old Duncan Invader

I have an RG470, and I had both a neck and a bridge Invader on this guitar before (not anymore). I don't think there is any way to make the neck version sound like the bridge version because there is more wire wound in the bridge version. Duncan does this to decrease the output of the neck version so that both the neck and bridge have relatively the same output in volume.

 

[Fernas]

Re: Having problems with an Old Duncan Invader

YEAHHH!!! so you can answer me ... just to be 99% sure this thing works ok .... when you tap the poles with a metal ... ermmm something ... does the poles from the bridge sound louder than the neck?

Thank you all!

 

[Fernas]

Re: Having problems with an Old Duncan Invader

God damn it! .... i just saw this on the seymour duncan page ...
B 2 rows black button screws SH-8b Invader, bridge

My invader has a sticker that says "B M" :'( .... so ... it's not a neck .. it's a bridge ... and .. it's weaker than others. .... so the coils may be bad :S

 

[Fernas]

Re: Having problems with an Old Duncan Invader

So .. the situation is the following: ... according to the sticker on the back .. it's a bridge pickup .....
It really weaker than other invader ... i tapped the poles with a metal thing and both coils sound at the same volume .... what the hell is going on here? are both coils bad?

please help ... i'm about to cry ... those little things are really expensive in my country :'(

 

[Artie]

Re: Having problems with an Old Duncan Invader

Did you follow that schematic exactly? Ibanez color codes are different than Duncan's. In that drawing, you want to use Duncans green and bare for Ibanez's shield. Duncans red and white tied together for Ibanez's red, and Duncan's black for Ibanez's white. Like this:

Ibanez . . . . . Duncan
white . . . . . .black
red . . . . . . . .red and white
shield . . . . . . green and bare

Artie

 

[Fernas]

Re: Having problems with an Old Duncan Invader

yes ... thats how EXACTLY i wired it up

 

[Artie]

Re: Having problems with an Old Duncan Invader

yes ... thats how EXACTLY i wired it up

Thats your problem. Do it like my chart above shows, and let us know how it sounds then.

Artie

Edit: One more thing. After you rewire, check the Duncan by itself first. It should sound great. Then check it with the Ibby's. It may sound weak. I'm not sure if Duncans and Ibby's are phased the same. Worse case scenario is you'll have to reverse the green and black of the Duncan, then you'll be all set. Just keep that in mind.

 

[Fernas]

Re: Having problems with an Old Duncan Invader

i dont get it .... i mean ... i wired it up exactly that way ....i mean... following your chart i even tried to wires it up "out-of-phase" but the problem still goes on ... hhmmm .... someone told me that if one of the coils is broken ... when you tap it it will sound different than the other ... it will sound weaker .... but my problem is that both of them sound weak ...

i removed the tape of the pick up and .... it was wired this way:
Red - white(from pickup)
white - white (from p'up)
black - black
green - black ...

red and green on one coil and black white on the other coil .... is that correct?

 

[Artie]

Re: Having problems with an Old Duncan Invader

i removed the tape of the pick up and .... it was wired this way:
Red - white(from pickup)
white - white (from p'up)
black - black
green - black ...

red and green on one coil and black white on the other coil .... is that correct?

The last sentence is correct, but I'm not sure what you mean by your chart. Unfortunately, my web space is temporarily down, or I could post a pic. But here's what you want:

The Ibby diagram shows white, red, and shield wires.
Connect the Duncan black to the Ibby white.
Connect the Duncan red and white together, and then to the Ibby red.
Connect the Duncan green and bare together, and then to the Ibby shield.

If that still sounds bad, then there may be another problem.