Having trouble cleaning up witj volume - SG with Custom 8/59b

[hydro]

This is an 08 SG Standard with a custom 8 in the bridge, stock 59n neck.

Electronics are a Mojotone 50s wiring set for SGs, replacing the PCB/quick connects

I'm having a hard time getting the volume/gain to clean up esp. on the bridge pup. I have to roll my bridge vol down to about 2 or 3 before I notice much cleanup.

I realize this is a high output pickup. I have it screwed down pretty low. I tested this with a fulltone OCD at noon or below on drive, through a 50 watt plexi clone running loud but not cranked. I installed it myself, but everything works normally otherwise
and I am pretty sure I wired it correctly.

Any suggestions as to where I can look? I would blame it on the high output but the neck pickup seems on the hot side too.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Having trouble cleaning up witj volume - SG with Custom 8/59b

I would blame it on the high output. The A8 is quite a bit more powerful, on par with a thick ceramic.

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[AlexR]

Re: Having trouble cleaning up witj volume - SG with Custom 8/59b

Different pickup is what will solve your issue. A C8 is in no way a 'clean up with volume' type pickup.

 

[SJ318]

Re: Having trouble cleaning up witj volume - SG with Custom 8/59b

I had the same problem with a JB pickup. It's resistance was 16K and had an A5 polished mag.I bought a Princeton Reverb RI, and when I went for some BB King Mike Bloomfield sound, like I could get from lower 8K p'ups, all I could get was dirt no matter what I did. I dislike higher would pick ups so much I could use curse words. Mainly I now use anything from 7.5K-9K with different mag swaps and found great sound that way. On Duncan or several boutique p'ups I have.
Exception: 59/Custom is hot, 11K or so, it has an A5 mag and un-equal wound coils, so although it is louder, and has a bigger mid sound (to my ears anyway) it does clean up really well. I can get just about anything out of it. I put an A8 in my 8.5K or so Seth Lover in the bridge of my other guitar, and it does sound "bigger" the high end is very smooth but present, and the low end is tight. On both p'ups I lowered the low string side of both p'ups pretty far away (I should measure as this is the second time I have said this) and kept the high string side fairly close on both with the poles even with the slugs. Open or covered p'ups, I do the same thing. On the lower bass side I do have the poles up quite a bit to get that tighter bass sound.
Steve Buffington

 

[hydro]

Re: Having trouble cleaning up witj volume - SG with Custom 8/59b

Different pickup is what will solve your issue. A C8 is in no way a 'clean up with volume' type pickup.

I really like the tonal qualities of this pickup, the A8 mag, etc. and so I am considering replacing this one with a 59b wind with an Alnico 8 in it. I am not sure what the net output would be for this customization, but I would guess quite a bit lower than the C8 which is the custom wind.

When I put this pickup in I was interested in experimenting with a hotter pickup but I concluded that's just not my deal, I need more of a vintage wind. One of those things you have to experience personally before you understand.

The C8 is a GREAT pickup though. The sound is amazing, but I am like, dude there is like a tiny range at the bottom of the pot throw where the volume starts to roll off gain, and then it is just completely quiet. The good thing is I probably won't have any trouble selling it.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Having trouble cleaning up witj volume - SG with Custom 8/59b

Yeah....there's always a compromise. The Custom just about seemed to play itself when I had an A8 in there.
But you lose the nuance with a powerful mag, and combine it with a powerful wind too and it really compresses for liquid tone.

I've never done A8 in a 59. I guess it would be ok as the 59 seems to accept most mags happily. You just might get a bit of that compression bit still around, but I'd guess the 59 would rolloff much better.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Having trouble cleaning up witj volume - SG with Custom 8/59b

I still recommend the UOA5 in either the Custom or the 59.

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[SJ318]

Re: Having trouble cleaning up witj volume - SG with Custom 8/59b

Demanic,
I have used an A5 and an A8 in my Seth L. bridge, also an A4. The A8 really beefed it up and read stronger through my multimeter. The A2 was just to loose and underwhelming for my ears.
What say you to a UOA5 in the Seth L. bridge. The A8 and A4 were roughcast, the A5 was polished, and as it settled became a little ice picky on the top.
Buff

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Having trouble cleaning up witj volume - SG with Custom 8/59b

Different pickup is what will solve your issue. A C8 is in no way a 'clean up with volume' type pickup.

Of course it is.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Having trouble cleaning up witj volume - SG with Custom 8/59b

I have no problem getting a C8 to clean up with minor tweaks to my vol pot. The overall output of the pup is only a small part of the problem you are having. Here is the key...

I realize this is a high output pickup. I have it screwed down pretty low.

First of all, what's the point of having a high output pup then mounting it low in the guitar so it sounds like a low output pup?! You've reduced the output by placing it far away from the strings. There is a reason why pup mfgs make high output pups and you defeat the purpose by mounting it low. Yes, you might as well have a 59 with an A8 and it will do what you want better than the C8.

Look at it this way...you're singing into a mic very close (less than an inch). Very slight distance changes of even a 1/4", or slight vocal dynamic changes make a big difference in perceived volume output. But if you're singing a foot away from the mic, no one will notice any dynamic changes in your vocals or if you move even an inch or two closer or farther away from the mic.

So, try mounting that C8 close to the strings and change your equipment settings to give you the distortion/OD and volume you want/you're used to. (You'll notice that you need much less gain on your OCD and less volume on your amp). Now roll off the vol pot on your guitar and see if it cleans up.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Having trouble cleaning up witj volume - SG with Custom 8/59b

Demanic,
I have used an A5 and an A8 in my Seth L. bridge, also an A4. The A8 really beefed it up and read stronger through my multimeter. The A2 was just to loose and underwhelming for my ears.
What say you to a UOA5 in the Seth L. bridge. The A8 and A4 were roughcast, the A5 was polished, and as it settled became a little ice picky on the top.
Buff

I like the UOA5. I think it's a good substitute for an A5 where you like it's character, but want a bit more mids and a bit less on the top and bottom.
I would also take into account what GuitarDoc says about pickup height.

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[Rand-O-Monium]

Re: Having trouble cleaning up witj volume - SG with Custom 8/59b

I've never done A8 in a 59. I guess it would be ok as the 59 seems to accept most mags happily. You just might get a bit of that compression bit still around, but I'd guess the 59 would rolloff much better.

One of LtKojaks faves,methinks...

 

[Mincer]

Re: Having trouble cleaning up witj volume - SG with Custom 8/59b

A8 and JB are far too compressed to clean up. They are simply the wrong tools for the job If you like dynamics and touch sensitivity, go with a lower output pickup and hit the signal with a Pickup Booster when you need it. You will get the benefits of a dynamic pickup and the power of a high output one.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Having trouble cleaning up witj volume - SG with Custom 8/59b

I like the UOA5. I think it's a good substitute for an A5 where you like it's character, but want a bit more mids and a bit less on the top and bottom.
I would also take into account what GuitarDoc says about pickup height.

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I totally agree. When you want a little less shrillness and more warmth and mids than a polished A5, and without the extra output of the A8, then the UOA5 is a great way to go.

 

[SJ318]

Re: Having trouble cleaning up witj volume - SG with Custom 8/59b

Demanic,
Thanks.
Buff

 

[hydro]

Re: Having trouble cleaning up witj volume - SG with Custom 8/59b

I have no problem getting a C8 to clean up with minor tweaks to my vol pot. The overall output of the pup is only a small part of the problem you are having. Here is the key...



First of all, what's the point of having a high output pup then mounting it low in the guitar so it sounds like a low output pup?! You've reduced the output by placing it far away from the strings. There is a reason why pup mfgs make high output pups and you defeat the purpose by mounting it low. Yes, you might as well have a 59 with an A8 and it will do what you want better than the C8.

Look at it this way...you're singing into a mic very close (less than an inch). Very slight distance changes of even a 1/4", or slight vocal dynamic changes make a big difference in perceived volume output. But if you're singing a foot away from the mic, no one will notice any dynamic changes in your vocals or if you move even an inch or two closer or farther away from the mic.

So, try mounting that C8 close to the strings and change your equipment settings to give you the distortion/OD and volume you want/you're used to. (You'll notice that you need much less gain on your OCD and less volume on your amp). Now roll off the vol pot on your guitar and see if it cleans up.

Actually it is still pretty close to the strings - it came short leg and so the springs are squooshed about as far as I can get them, which wasn't far. I can try moving them a little closer and see if that affects the volume taper.

Since I have never used high output pickups before, I guess I didn't realize lack of volume cleanup is a tradeoff. But it's no big deal, I just wanted to experiment some. It sounds great actually, and I learned something in the process.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Having trouble cleaning up witj volume - SG with Custom 8/59b

Actually it is still pretty close to the strings - it came short leg and so the springs are squooshed about as far as I can get them, which wasn't far. I can try moving them a little closer and see if that affects the volume taper.

Since I have never used high output pickups before, I guess I didn't realize lack of volume cleanup is a tradeoff. But it's no big deal, I just wanted to experiment some. It sounds great actually, and I learned something in the process.

That's the spirit. Experiment - learn - appreciate - grow.

I would try putting shorter and lighter springs under the mounting ring and adjust your equipment accordingly and see what you can come up with. The C8 is one of my favorite pups (actually, since I have over 3 dozen guitars, I have lots of favorite pups)...great tone and response and versatility. But just like anything, it has its limits. But you really aught to put it through its paces before deciding that it's not right for you.

It's great to try new things, just don't expect everything to behave the same. Trying different types of pups can broaden your horizons and give you new creative ideas. You don't always get what you expect, but that's a good thing in the end.