***HELP*** Changing from dual mode EMGs to standard SD Blackouts

[Glyph]

Got another question for you guys...I've got a 2010 Schecter Hellraiser that has an EMG 81tw in the bridge and a EMG 89 in the neck and push-pull volume pots to split the coils. I am looking to change these out for a set of SD Blackouts that are not splittable. I do know that the Blackouts can use the existing EMG quik-connect harness, which is a good thing. However, after having downloaded the wiring diagrams for my Hellraiser and for the Blackjack ATX (which is basically what my guitar will become after I put the Blackouts in it), I'm noticing there are some differences in where the wires are connecting. Obviously most of the wires coming from the EMGs will connect the 6-point connectors on the pot, and the others will connect the the standard 3 tab connectors.

Would I be able to just pull the EMGs and slide in the Blackouts without any trouble, or will it have to be rewired?? One side of my brain is wanting to think that I could just slip on the quik-connect of the appropriate pins on the BOs and Voila! I'm done. But the other side is thinking that it may not be that simple??

Any thoughts??


I do plan on contacting Schecter support to see what they say, and I will post what I find out. In the meantime, here are the wiring diagrams for my my guitar currently (Hellraiser) and the Blackjack ATX.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: ***HELP*** Changing from dual mode EMGs to standard SD Blackouts

The dual mode EMG pickups will need their push-pull pots and six pin block connectors to work in another guitar.

I suggest that you desolder only the EMG pickups from the switch portions of their respective volume pots. (Ten touches of the soldering iron.) Remove the remaining wiring harness wholesale - including the selector switch and output jack.

Make a clean install of the Blackouts using the control parts supplied by SD.



EDIT - Which models of Blackout humbucker do you have? Some variants have a "jumper" connection on the underside to vary the output level. If your pickups have this, it would be worthwhile integrating the feature into your new wiring. The simplest way is to have a mini switch per pickup. The tidiest way is to have the mode switching governed by a 24-contact selector switch.

 

[Despised]

Re: ***HELP*** Changing from dual mode EMGs to standard SD Blackouts

The dual mode EMG pickups will need their push-pull pots and six pin block connectors to work in another guitar.

I suggest that you desolder only the EMG pickups from the switch portions of their respective volume pots. (Ten touches of the soldering iron.) Remove the remaining wiring harness wholesale - including the selector switch and output jack.

Make a clean install of the Blackouts using the control parts supplied by SD.



EDIT - Which models of Blackout humbucker do you have? Some variants have a "jumper" connection on the underside to vary the output level. If your pickups have this, it would be worthwhile integrating the feature into your new wiring. The simplest way is to have a mini switch per pickup. The tidiest way is to have the mode switching governed by a 24-contact selector switch.

Nah, man. Why should the OP be removing the jack and the switch, when he's going to be using the same switch and he's already got a perfectly working stereo jack for the actives anyway???

OP, here is what you'll need to do to make the swap:
*Take the EMG's out and unplug them from the back of the pickup
*Unsolder the wires from the pickup wires from the volume pots
*pull both the pickup wires out
*Unsolder the signal and ground wires going from the switch to the old push/pull pots. Unsolder them from the pot side, not the switch side as you'll be reusing them.
*Remove the push/pull pots from the guitar
*install the 2 new volume pots
*unsolder the capacitor on the tone pot, and solder on the new capacitor from the Blackouts in the same way the old one was.
*Install the new pickup wires, install the pickups into the pickup rings/guitar, and plug the wires into the pickups, with the RED wire on the left side (if your looking at the back of the pickup...)
*Once you have the new pickup wires connected on the pickups, the new pickup wires run into the cavity and the pickups mounted in the guitar, then just follow the diagram for the Blackjack. Connect all the grounds, make all your connections back to the correct volume pots from the switch, battery wires, and solder the pickup wires to the volume pots as shown in the diagram.

You should be able to leave the wires going from the switch to the jack, as you'll be using that same jack for the Blackouts. If your not in any immediate rush to get the guitar back in action, you can always sell the EMG's, the push/pull pots and the pickup wires to fund an EMG solderless wiring kit and a solderless 3-way switch.

Me personally, I would have left the EMG's in it, as you can get 8 different tones out of the guitar between the push/pulls and the 3-way switch instead of only 3 tones from the Blackouts. But I know that EMG's aren't for everyone and others' tastes and tonal quests are different than my own. So with this being said, good luck and hope this helps. If you need any other help with this, feel free to PM me and I'll help ya out.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: ***HELP*** Changing from dual mode EMGs to standard SD Blackouts

I agree with you about leaving the EMGs in the guitar but what we think does not matter.

Since about half of the wiring harness for the Blackouts will have to be assembled from scratch, why not do the whole lot AND leave the EMG harness as near as possible original? (Handy for a quick re-install if the guitar has to be sold in the future.)

Also, if the guitar were mine, I would be looking for a way to get the two output levels from each Blackouts humbucker. That almost certainly means a four pole Superswitch.

 

[Glyph]

Re: ***HELP*** Changing from dual mode EMGs to standard SD Blackouts

Nah, man. Why should the OP be removing the jack and the switch, when he's going to be using the same switch and he's already got a perfectly working stereo jack for the actives anyway???

OP, here is what you'll need to do to make the swap:
*Take the EMG's out and unplug them from the back of the pickup
*Unsolder the wires from the pickup wires from the volume pots
*pull both the pickup wires out
*Unsolder the signal and ground wires going from the switch to the old push/pull pots. Unsolder them from the pot side, not the switch side as you'll be reusing them.
*Remove the push/pull pots from the guitar
*install the 2 new volume pots
*unsolder the capacitor on the tone pot, and solder on the new capacitor from the Blackouts in the same way the old one was.
*Install the new pickup wires, install the pickups into the pickup rings/guitar, and plug the wires into the pickups, with the RED wire on the left side (if your looking at the back of the pickup...)
*Once you have the new pickup wires connected on the pickups, the new pickup wires run into the cavity and the pickups mounted in the guitar, then just follow the diagram for the Blackjack. Connect all the grounds, make all your connections back to the correct volume pots from the switch, battery wires, and solder the pickup wires to the volume pots as shown in the diagram.

You should be able to leave the wires going from the switch to the jack, as you'll be using that same jack for the Blackouts. If your not in any immediate rush to get the guitar back in action, you can always sell the EMG's, the push/pull pots and the pickup wires to fund an EMG solderless wiring kit and a solderless 3-way switch.

Me personally, I would have left the EMG's in it, as you can get 8 different tones out of the guitar between the push/pulls and the 3-way switch instead of only 3 tones from the Blackouts. But I know that EMG's aren't for everyone and others' tastes and tonal quests are different than my own. So with this being said, good luck and hope this helps. If you need any other help with this, feel free to PM me and I'll help ya out.

I agree with you about leaving the EMGs in the guitar but what we think does not matter.

Since about half of the wiring harness for the Blackouts will have to be assembled from scratch, why not do the whole lot AND leave the EMG harness as near as possible original? (Handy for a quick re-install if the guitar has to be sold in the future.)

Also, if the guitar were mine, I would be looking for a way to get the two output levels from each Blackouts humbucker. That almost certainly means a four pole Superswitch.

Then let me ask you a theoretical question - In theory, is possible to simply unplug the EMGs and plug in the Blackouts and have them work using the existing electronics?? My ultimate goal is to keep as much of the original electronics as possible, and keep labor costs to $0 if at all possible. If I can do it myself, I would like to. Honestly, I have never used a soldering iron, its not that I couldn't learn, I just haven't attempted it for no reason other than there hasn't been a need to.

As for switching from EMGs to Blackouts, I found that I like the BOs better after A-B'ing them over the course of the last couple weeks via Youtube and other video sources. Also, I have another guitar w/ H-S-S setup in the shop as we speak that is better suited to multiple sounds. It will have a DiMarzio Chopper in the neck, a DiM Cruiser in middle and a Lace Deathbucker in the bridge, all set with mini toggles.

and to answer FunkFingers earlier question about which Blackout model I have - I don't currently have any in hand. I will be purchasing shortly, and I think I have settled on the AHB-3 EMTY Mick Thomson set. I dig their sound and the fact that they're geared more towards lower tunings. I was considering the AHB-2 and wiring the output mode pins to the push-pull pot, but its only available in Bridge, not as a set which is what I'm looking for.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: ***HELP*** Changing from dual mode EMGs to standard SD Blackouts

Then let me ask you a theoretical question - Is possible to simply unplug the EMGs and plug in the Blackouts and have them work using the existing electronics?

No.

EMG-81TW and -89 pickups employ a six-contact block connector.

SD Blackouts employ a three-contact block connector.

Not even lining up the three outermost EMG contacts with the three SD ones will work.

Without their six-contact block connectors, the two EMGs would be expensive paperweights.

 

[Glyph]

Re: ***HELP*** Changing from dual mode EMGs to standard SD Blackouts

No.

EMG-81TW and -89 pickups employ a six-contact block connector.

SD Blackouts employ a three-contact block connector.

Not even lining up the three outermost EMG contacts with the three SD ones will work.

Without their six-contact block connectors, the two EMGs would be expensive paperweights.

Damn I was afraid of that...I was hoping that I could just pop out the EMGs and pop in the Blackouts. I definitely want to swap them out, now I just need to decide if I want to do it myself, or take it to my local tech. Thanx for the help guys!!!

 

[Despised]

Re: ***HELP*** Changing from dual mode EMGs to standard SD Blackouts

Damn I was afraid of that...I was hoping that I could just pop out the EMGs and pop in the Blackouts. I definitely want to swap them out, now I just need to decide if I want to do it myself, or take it to my local tech. Thanx for the help guys!!!

Like I mentioned before, if your not in a rush to get the EMG's out and Blackouts in, then you should consider selling the EMG's with the wiring harnesses, push/pull pots and the spare battery clip, tone pot and jack from the Blackouts to fund the EMG solderless wiring kit and the EMG solderless 3-way switch... With the solderless system, you can do the install and wiring yourself, and have the guitar back in action in at most an hour. It's something to consider, and would be just the price of the parts (AHB-3's, solderless wiring kit and switch...), and it'd still be a LOT cheaper than having a shop do the work, which would charge you:
*$40 per pickup to install. NOT WIRE UP, JUST INSTALL IN THE BODY!!!
*At least another $40 to wire everything up, which is simple to do
*Plus, they'd charge you to unwire and remove the EMG's and push/pulls anyway...
*Plus the set-up, $50 - $75 depending on if it's got a Floyd rose or not...
You're looking at a couple hundred easy in labor by having the shop do it. Get the parts I mentioned and do it yourself. You'll enjoy doing the wiring yourself, plus it'll give you not only extra piece of mind, but extar satisfaction and
assurance in knowing you did it yourself and saved that much more.

Not only that, but the normal EMG wiring system is the same used for the Blackouts. So with the solderless wiring system, the Blackouts can be just as easy an install and wire up. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

 

[Glyph]

Re: ***HELP*** Changing from dual mode EMGs to standard SD Blackouts

Like I mentioned before, if your not in a rush to get the EMG's out and Blackouts in, then you should consider selling the EMG's with the wiring harnesses, push/pull pots and the spare battery clip, tone pot and jack from the Blackouts to fund the EMG solderless wiring kit and the EMG solderless 3-way switch... With the solderless system, you can do the install and wiring yourself, and have the guitar back in action in at most an hour. It's something to consider, and would be just the price of the parts (AHB-3's, solderless wiring kit and switch...), and it'd still be a LOT cheaper than having a shop do the work, which would charge you:
*$40 per pickup to install. NOT WIRE UP, JUST INSTALL IN THE BODY!!!
*At least another $40 to wire everything up, which is simple to do
*Plus, they'd charge you to unwire and remove the EMG's and push/pulls anyway...
*Plus the set-up, $50 - $75 depending on if it's got a Floyd rose or not...
You're looking at a couple hundred easy in labor by having the shop do it. Get the parts I mentioned and do it yourself. You'll enjoy doing the wiring yourself, plus it'll give you not only extra piece of mind, but extar satisfaction and
assurance in knowing you did it yourself and saved that much more.

Not only that, but the normal EMG wiring system is the same used for the Blackouts. So with the solderless wiring system, the Blackouts can be just as easy an install and wire up. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

Luckily, I wouldn't have to spend as much as you say. The two luthier/techs in my area are really good friends of my dad and I, one working out of a local mom n pop music shop, and the other works out of his garage. The both just quoted me $30-40 for the entire job, not including setup, but it was just set up a few weeks back.

But I think I am going to try my hand at soldering. I've got a junker that I can practice on. Plus I work on computers as a hobby, so I've got steady enough hands do the job. Of course, if I need any help, I'll be sure to give you a shout!! Thanx again folks!!