HELP! Important rig decisions!

[ToastyMagician]

So, at the moment i use an engl e530 preamp with a marshall el34 100/100, i've seen a Mesa triple rectifier which i could afford if i traded/sold my current setup.

I do like my current tone (a hecking lot) but i feel like there's something not quite there.

I use modern metal tones mostly but i want something that really growls (not too tight!)with out sounding flubby or muddy?

-Is it worth it?

 

[Thundermtn]

Re: HELP! Important rig decisions!

Take all your gear in front of the amp and try it. On a Rec be sure to pay close attention to the presence knob and try it out in both Tube and Silicon modes (switch is on the back). Your ears will be a better judge than anybody with so many variables coming into play.

 

[metalchurch79]

Re: HELP! Important rig decisions!

What cab are you using? What tubes?
I bought the E530 the week it came out and I only had it for about 5mins and did not like it. Went back to my MP-2 for a while..

I also run an old Rane ME-15 rack eq that is just so awesome to fine tune my eq section, so you can try that as well...

 

[Kruspe]

Re: HELP! Important rig decisions!

I would use the E530 with engl power amp and engl 2x12 or 4x12 box. That would sound killer.

For triple recto, I personally did not like it too much, in the end o got the TC-50, straight forward amp that got great tone and very tight bottom end, ideal for metal.

Its a good chance that if you dont already own mesa cab, you would like to get a mesa cab, i never liked mesa amps playing trough different cabs than mesa, there is something about those oversized cab by mesa that makes them sound so good in combination with mesa heads.


The 100/100 does not sound good with anything but jmp 1 preamp, i tried triaxis, rocktron, ada, peavey 6505 fx send into it.

I would suggest to trade the 100/100 and get engl power amp, or trade the preamp and get jmp1.

If you go with mesa, your whole rig will change and it will take you some time to get use to it, triple recto is not one of the best sounding amps to my ears, i would go rather for the 50w version that sounds better to me, with mesa, good chance is that you would need to change cab too.

 

[dystrust]

Re: HELP! Important rig decisions!

I would use the E530 with engl power amp and engl 2x12 or 4x12 box. That would sound killer.

The 100/100 does not sound good with anything but jmp 1 preamp, i tried triaxis, rocktron, ada, peavey 6505 fx send into it.

I would suggest to trade the 100/100 and get engl power amp, or trade the preamp and get jmp1.

+1 for a better power amp.

I'm not familiar with Engl, but just about every rack power amp is better than an EL34 100/100. I've never played VHT/Fryette, but they're supposed to be great for metal tones. I've played almost every Mesa, and their power amps are excellent. The Simul 395 sounds the most amp-like, while the old 50/50 sounds great on a budget. Of their more recent offerings, the Simul 2:90 sounds the best IMO.

 

[2ndhandband]

Re: HELP! Important rig decisions!

Light the Marshall on fire. Those are amongst the worst sounding tube power amps I have heard.

If you want modern metal an E530 WILL deliver. Get a Mesa or Engl or Peavey power amp... I don't really recommend he Engl actually... their power amps are overpriced. But literally anything but the Marshall.

 

[2ndhandband]

Re: HELP! Important rig decisions!

What cab are you using? What tubes?
I bought the E530 the week it came out and I only had it for about 5mins and did not like it. Went back to my MP-2 for a while..

I also run an old Rane ME-15 rack eq that is just so awesome to fine tune my eq section, so you can try that as well...

It's cool there's another MP-2 man on the forum... that's arguably the best programmable preamp ever made.

I disagree on the e530. It's not quite what I like (I prefer the plexi-like tones of the older E520) but when I'm recording at my friend's studio there's an E530 in there and it's our go-to unit for anything modern metal. For reference, there is also a Dual Recto in the room.

 

[metalchurch79]

Re: HELP! Important rig decisions!

My buddy bought my E530 and got good results from his, I actually liked playing his rig from time to time. As far as the EL34 100/100 and the 9200,9100 those are excellent power amps used by many bands from the mid 90's when those power amps were introduced, right up until today you'll still see bands like Priest,Maiden,Megadeth and countless others still using them because they are work horses.
A Poweramp does have some inherent tone, but for the most part the preamp does the coloring and the Poweramp simply amplifies that sound. For the most part. Now tubes will play an important role obviously as well...
I like the 5881's in my 9200 as opposed to the EL34, which is the same Poweramp with different tubes. On my Side-B I pulled two power tubes, which essentially made it 60w, not 50w as you be inclined to think. At least that's how it was explained to me. Its a nice tonal change and its so much more smooth and has a very nice break up to it.

 

[2ndhandband]

Re: HELP! Important rig decisions!

Tell you what... the same studio I referred to above has two tube power amps: a pair of Carvin TS100s. Those things are quite inexpensive and a real sleeper. My friend has a ton of cool preamps in his rack: Mesas (including a lovely old Quad), Carvins, Engls, Peaveys, a Bogner Fish, and a hyper-rare Soldano X99. EVERYTHING gets run through those Carvins. One has the stock EL34s and one has 6L6s... I much prefer the one with 6L6 but they're both fine. Something to think about.

The best deals going for tubed power amps are those Carvins and the Peavey Classic Series. I have a preference for the Peaveys but they are old enough they might need some reconditioning and should probably just get recapped before you even plug it in. The Carvins are newer.

 

[metalchurch79]

Re: HELP! Important rig decisions!

Yea I got what you're saying, its just that I wouldn't really group an entire model run of anything together based on a few examples. Not that you were implying that. What I was getting at, is that there are numerous variables in a given signal path that can be tweaked. Some things can't be made to do something that they're not intended to do, but that being said, there are plenty of examples of people getting an awesome tone using those poweramps.

The E530 is a quality product, it just didn't do what I wanted it to do, now this old Engl 620 I have walks all over the 'modern metal' 530, but then again I'm using 5881/ 6L6 as opposed to the OP's EL34's, and I'm running G12T's in a sealed 1960B cab. Not sure what he is using, as far as tubes or cab, but I'm sure he can tweak something to get closer in the tonal direction he wants to go rather than redoing his rig...at least for now.

 

[2ndhandband]

Re: HELP! Important rig decisions!

Yea I got what you're saying, its just that I wouldn't really group an entire model run of anything together based on a few examples. Not that you were implying that. What I was getting at, is that there are numerous variables in a given signal path that can be tweaked. Some things can't be made to do something that they're not intended to do, but that being said, there are plenty of examples of people getting an awesome tone using those poweramps.

The E530 is a quality product, it just didn't do what I wanted it to do, now this old Engl 620 I have walks all over the 'modern metal' 530, but then again I'm using 5881/ 6L6 as opposed to the OP's EL34's, and I'm running G12T's in a sealed 1960B cab. Not sure what he is using, as far as tubes or cab, but I'm sure he can tweak something to get closer in the tonal direction he wants to go rather than redoing his rig...at least for now.

A lot of people don't think about their speakers, which is a shame because I think they're much more important than your choice of power amp.

As for the preamps I kind of agree; I prefer the older engls myself. The E530 is very much your stereotypical "Engl" tone (basically a different flavor of recto), whereas the E620 and the E520 hew a little closer to a British sound. I very much prefer the latter. The E570 and especially the E580 can get both, but at a price tag to match.

 

[metalchurch79]

Re: HELP! Important rig decisions!

Yea absolutely man! There are so many variables and he has some nice equipment, its just getting a sound he likes. Its in there somewhere...
Engl are expensive but they deliver.

 

[2ndhandband]

Re: HELP! Important rig decisions!

Yea absolutely man! There are so many variables and he has some nice equipment, its just getting a sound he likes. Its in there somewhere...
Engl are expensive but they deliver.

Yeah... once I get my FX rig sorted... and by the time I'm done with that I'm going to be in close to 3k... I am probably going to start watching for a deal on an E580. Whether I buy it this year or next depends on how much money I have made by the end of the year. Sometimes I buy some extra stuff for tax purposes...

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: HELP! Important rig decisions!

I had your exact rig when I was in a touring metal band. Personally, I would keep it.

 

[ToastyMagician]

Re: HELP! Important rig decisions!

Hi guys! thanks for all the reply's, as for my cab im using a Purple Chilli 2x12 (boutique, local to me) loaded with a greenback (G12 i think?) and a V-30. I think i might try putting 6L6's in the power amp (if you can do that?) and i heard a mention that the stock tubes in the engl could be better so ill try that swapping those as well.

Just to repeat, i do love my tone, i think it sounds great.

 

[metalchurch79]

Re: HELP! Important rig decisions!

I'm running Electro Harmonix 6L6 with tung-sol pre tubes in my Engl and the 9200. I still highly suggest that you get a 15 band rack eq or a Boss GE7.
BBE Sonic maximizers are OK, I used a 462 for a while, but it wasn't a long term solution.

 

[ToastyMagician]

Re: HELP! Important rig decisions!

I'm running Electro Harmonix 6L6 with tung-sol pre tubes in my Engl and the 9200. I still highly suggest that you get a 15 band rack eq or a Boss GE7.
BBE Sonic maximizers are OK, I used a 462 for a while, but it wasn't a long term solution.

Any recommendations on a rack EQ? Actually are there any rack systems that have that and more? i was thinking of using rack gear for my whole fx loop and using the pedals that are there at the moment for a bedroom rig.

Also how would i go about changing my output tubes to 6L6? i know it would need re-biasing but it that all?

 

[metalchurch79]

Re: HELP! Important rig decisions!

Any 15 band rack eq will be fine really. Mine isn't nothing special at all, but it does the trick.
As far as going from EL34's to 6L6's, you should be ok with just rebiasing and giving it a once over.

 

[chadd]

Re: HELP! Important rig decisions!

I'm a Mesa guy, you really need to open them up a bit to get the growl. Because of that, I'm not really a fan of the triple. The 2:90 power amp is fantastic, though.

 

[dystrust]

Re: HELP! Important rig decisions!

I'm running Electro Harmonix 6L6 with tung-sol pre tubes in my Engl and the 9200. I still highly suggest that you get a 15 band rack eq or a Boss GE7.
BBE Sonic maximizers are OK, I used a 462 for a while, but it wasn't a long term solution.

+1 for a rack EQ if you feel that you need one. I tried a Boss GE7 after my Soldano SP-77 and could hardly believe the tone suck. Sounded fine in front though.

Any recommendations on a rack EQ? Actually are there any rack systems that have that and more? i was thinking of using rack gear for my whole fx loop and using the pedals that are there at the moment for a bedroom rig.

Also how would i go about changing my output tubes to 6L6? i know it would need re-biasing but it that all?

The EL34 100/100 isn't designed to run both EL-34s and 6L6s. The Carvin mentioned elsewhere in the thread can run either, and most of Mesa's Simulclass power amps can run EL-34s in the class A sockets.

The Simul 395 that I enjoy so much is supposed to run all 6L6s, but it can run EL-34s in the class A sockets if they're not too tall (3U power amp). All 6L6s resulted in the cleanest tone, but a 6L6/EL-34 mix sounded much more lively and amp-like. All rack systems have a somewhat disconnected feel compared to playing through a head, but the 395 with a 6L6/EL-34 mix sounded the closest.