Help me build a custom Hybrid bridge humbucker?

[ekulggats]

Hey all-

Really wanting to try out the custom shop.

I appreciate all of your knowledge on this.

What I want from it-

Strong, almost P90-like Split Slug coil with clarity. Fat/punchy and cutting at the same time for lively percussive rhythm playing, something bold enough by itself to not sound anemic for metal rhythm. I will be boosting with an OD most of the time, but it should be a usably strong sound without. I play another guitar with a P90 which I've come to love for metal, in spite of its noisiness...

Humbucker tone - Med/High, like a 7/10 in output. I want to retain string to string note clarity for arpeggiated chords etc. -Nasty, but not so high output that it muds out or is too aggressive. (For instance, the black winter, nazgul etc are too muddled on chords for me). The screw coil I see as serving almost like the tweeter in a PA speaker, to retain note clarity and balance the naturally warmed up sound of the humbucking mode. Fleshing it out but not mudding it up. The Slug coil would be doing most of the work, with the screw in support of it.

**Screw coil sound I will never use by itself. Its purpose will be only to serve the full humbucking tone, and Its OK with me if it's lower output than the slug coil.

I was thinking Black winter Slug coil, Omega Screw coil, and hex screw polepieces? My thinking was the single of the BW would have the output and fatness I wanted, and the Omega Screw would retain clarity and balance when combined into humbucking mode? Or maybe like a Nazgul slug with a Custom 5 screw?

What do you guys think?

Thank you for any input.

 

[Bowtomecha]

Re: Help me build a custom Hybrid bridge humbucker?

Maybe the Blackened Black Winter will suffice.

 

[Bowtomecha]

Re: Help me build a custom Hybrid bridge humbucker?

Or just swap the fillisters in a regular black winter with 1/2 inch hex screws.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Help me build a custom Hybrid bridge humbucker?

Dont tie the custom shops hands, instead of trying to second guess what will work contact them directly and tell them this is the sound i want and let them decide the parts.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Help me build a custom Hybrid bridge humbucker?

Let me try to understand....you want a humbucker that has power ("7/10") with clarity, not muddy when split to the slug coil, and even more clarity when in series?

Not gonna happen.

It's like asking for a car with a low gear ratio so it will have lots of climbing power for steep mountain roads, but fast enough to take on any car in the 1/4 mile.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Help me build a custom Hybrid bridge humbucker?

Yeah, call the custom shop and let them know what you want.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Help me build a custom Hybrid bridge humbucker?

It kinda sounds like a 59/Custom Hybrid to me. But if you want an even bigger difference between the power of the coils, it might not hum-cancel as well.

 

[ekulggats]

Re: Help me build a custom Hybrid bridge humbucker?

Let me try to understand....you want a humbucker that has power ("7/10") with clarity, not muddy when split to the slug coil, and even more clarity when in series?

Not gonna happen.

It's like asking for a car with a low gear ratio so it will have lots of climbing power for steep mountain roads, but fast enough to take on any car in the 1/4 mile.

I never said "even more clarity' in series. I meant that the screw coil would be a very articulate sound to counter the natural 'mudding up' that happens when in series.

What I want out of the humbucker mode is a dual coil sound that still has chord clarity, which would warrant having a much more articulate screw coil, in my mind at least? Maybe It doesnt really work out that way.

And its pretty easy to gather what I mean when I say 7/10 lol. On a general scale of humbucker output.

Thanks for the suggestions on calling the custom shop, I didn't know that was a possibility and I definitely will. It would help to be a bit more prepared for when I do, so all of you guys info is appreciated.

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: Help me build a custom Hybrid bridge humbucker?

Why not just use a P Rails?

 

[ekulggats]

Re: Help me build a custom Hybrid bridge humbucker?

Why not just use a P Rails?

Haha. Good Idea- I have them installed in a guitar. Not feeling them.

In theory they'd be pretty spot on for me. But In practice, not so much.

The p90 sounds decent, but is muddy. The humbucker mode is super mudd. And the Single is almost useless. I dont know, they just sound like a poor representation of the pickups they're supposed to emulate.

I thought about inquiring about a ceramic P-rail or something like that. But I figured the guys at the custom shop would be more at home working with a standard humbucker format to get me where I wanted.

 

[hamerfan]

Re: Help me build a custom Hybrid bridge humbucker?

There are a Hot version of the p-rail and some guys modded them with A8. But all in all i think your demands on a single pickup are too high.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Help me build a custom Hybrid bridge humbucker?

Which model of P-Rail do you own?

If you have the bridge/hot version then I can understand your evaluation of it. But the neck version used in the bridge is great. I've got it in several guitars but I found that I like it best (I did a lot of experimenting with it when it first came out) when it is mounted with the Rail coil next to the bridge. When the P-90 coil is next to the bridge there isn't enough difference in the tone of the two coils for my liking. Also, to compensate for the lower output of the Rail coil next to the bridge I put an A8 magnet next to that coil (A5 or A4 mag next to the P-90 coil to retain that classic P-90 goodness).

 

[orpheo]

Re: Help me build a custom Hybrid bridge humbucker?

I'd go with a regular 59 custom hybrid and mod it from there.

Give it an alnico 8 bar. Alnico 5 slugs, hex screws.

The a5 slugs raise inductance. Giving a beefier tone split.
The shorter screws Lower inductance of that coil adding a bit more clarity.

The a8 bumps the power in the midrange, filling out your chords but a4 might also be great. More even tone.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Help me build a custom Hybrid bridge humbucker?

I'd go with a regular 59 custom hybrid and mod it from there.

Give it an alnico 8 bar. Alnico 5 slugs, hex screws.

The a5 slugs raise inductance. Giving a beefier tone split.
The shorter screws Lower inductance of that coil adding a bit more clarity.

The a8 bumps the power in the midrange, filling out your chords but a4 might also be great. More even tone.

Wait wait wait, back the truck up. Are you suggesting to replace the non magentic slugs for A5 rod magnets?

 

[Artie]

Re: Help me build a custom Hybrid bridge humbucker?

I wonder if a Fuglybucker would fill the bill? Splitting to the Parallel Axis coil would certainly give you the articulation and clarity, while the full humbucker mode would give a nice punch. And, you could say you got a Custom Shop pup. :dunno:

 

[orpheo]

Re: Help me build a custom Hybrid bridge humbucker?

Wait wait wait, back the truck up. Are you suggesting to replace the non magentic slugs for A5 rod magnets?

yup. Very unconventional, I know, but it really works quite well. I have to admit, though, that I'm leaning more towards A4 rods but still.. yes. I don't fully understand why it isn't being done more often since it helps to solve a lot of issues. I guess that Dimarzio's Virtual Vintage technology does something akin to this too: add inductance.

@artietoo; the fuglybucker is a really, really bad pickup all on its own. it needs an alnicoIV on the bottom and a ceramic9 to truly become EPIC.

 

[Artie]

Re: Help me build a custom Hybrid bridge humbucker?

@artietoo; the fuglybucker is a really, really bad pickup all on its own. it needs an alnicoIV on the bottom and a ceramic9 to truly become EPIC.

Cool. I was going totally by the write-up, and the fact that it was created by forum members.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Help me build a custom Hybrid bridge humbucker?

add inductance.

I'm suspect of this idea as rod magnets already have a great amount of string pull much more than bar magnets do. Combine that with a strong bar magnet like the A8 you suggested and you have one string pulling mother. At the very least you wind up with a pickup you have to run lower than others so that it doesnt pull them out of tune while a note decays.

I suggest you read the patent on virtual vintage they arent adding magnets to them they are adding more iron in the form of screws or plates that act more like pole pieces do. They are increasing inductance by helping flux flow easier rather than adding more flux.

Please elaborate on the exactly what issues this solves?

 

[orpheo]

Re: Help me build a custom Hybrid bridge humbucker?

I'm suspect of this idea as rod magnets already have a great amount of string pull much more than bar magnets do. Combine that with a strong bar magnet like the A8 you suggested and you have one string pulling mother. At the very least you wind up with a pickup you have to run lower than others so that it doesnt pull them out of tune while a note decays.

I suggest you read the patent on virtual vintage they arent adding magnets to them they are adding more iron in the form of screws or plates that act more like pole pieces do. They are increasing inductance by helping flux flow easier rather than adding more flux.

Please elaborate on the exactly what issues this solves?

yes, of course I read the patent. More iron will act as more magnet, though, but that is not the issue.

As for your statement about superheavy string pull (to paraphrase), no, you are wrong. In your analogy, a p90 should have crazy mag pull as well but that's not the case either. The rod magnets aren't really that strong, the bar magnet sits fairly low. All in all, the magnetic field strength isn't all that much compared to an Invader (which by the way is WAY stronger) with its 3 ceramic magnets, one of which is double thick, and its huge cap magnets. Or the black winter, with its three magnets like the invader but without the huge polepieces.

So, now that's out of the way. I initially came up with this idea a decade ago and with the pickup maker I was working with we decided upon this magnet combo in what is essentially a 59/custom hybrid (which didn't exist at the time straight out of the store). I wanted the slug coil when split to have a truer split tone and I figured, 42AWG isn't that strange an idea, let's use magnets instead of iron slugs to get it more inline with a real singlecoil. Let's add a full A8 bar magnet underneath. I designed the pickup when I was in university (I studies physics at the time) and I do remember calculating the magnetic fields and the result of my experiment was that the magnetic fields really do different things: the bar magnet is wide and flat, hence the polepieces to 'pull up' the magnetic field to the strings. The slug magnets don't have that issue so they are already narrow and tall. the two magnetic fields don't really get in each other's ways, was my hypothesis. I ended up not being totally correct in a scientific sense but tonally, it did what I wanted it to do. I never ever would have thought it would work but it does.

It's not a matter of solving a problem but trying out new ideas to see what sticks for a tonal desire and what I desired at that time, was just what the OP wants, hence my response

I think the subconscious problem was that I believed that I needed to raise the inductance of the slug coil with 42awg wire and by using magnets instead of slugs I could combat the loss of output in a way when split and by adding a bar magnet I could 'charge' (wrong term, deal with it ) the screw coil with a 'normal' magnetic field. I just made the slug coil a lot stronger in a way