Help me get a lead tone!

[CGord]

OK, as some of you may know, :blackeye: my lead tone is not the greatest. To be more precise, I do not have one; all I have is my rhythm tone.

For those brave souls willing to listen & critique, I've recorded some short examples (8, to be exact) of the amps I want to use. The clips are all with my C-1 Hellraiser, EMG 85 neck/81 bridge. The two amps are the 5150 & Uberschall models. I have a clip of each pickup, through each amp, with & without some Tube Screamer thrown on top. I left the cab & mic choices alone, as this already seemed like too much (and to my ears, the 57 mic model sounds like crap).

I also have pictures! This seemed like a better idea than writing out "bass-3:00, mid-2:00", etc. There are six images, showing each amp setting, including each pedal I'm using (gate, compression, TS, reverb) & the cab & mic choice. There is only one 5150 image, as everything except the amp settings is the same between it & the Uberschall. Same reverb, comp, etc.

I was going to post all of this stuff in a thread, but that would be way too much, so I've compressed all of it into a downloadable zip file. The images are jpg, the clips are vbr mp3. There's even an m3u playlist for your convenience!

Here's an image example:

And here's a clip example:

5150, Bridge pup, w/TS

Here is the zip file: CGord Lead Tone

Now, for those of you who question my ability to play lead, I'm right there with ya. But I'd like to leave 'em thinking "he can't play worth a damn, but that tone was smokin'!"

Many thanks in advance!

 

[Jackson Distortion]

Re: Help me get a lead tone!

Umm... you have no lead tone?

 

[JohnnyGuitar]

Re: Help me get a lead tone!

Actually it's pretty cool.

What do you want to change about your tone? why?

Oh, and you've been a little hard on yourself about your ability to play IMO...

 

[StrangeSound]

Re: Help me get a lead tone!

I'd tame some presence or treble..smooths out a lot.

 

[CGord]

Re: Help me get a lead tone!

Umm... you have no lead tone?

That is correct. Seems as though most have a disctinctly different sound for their lead from their rhythm sound. I don't, & I'm not sure what to change in order to get it sounding better.

Actually it's pretty cool.

What do you want to change about your tone? why?

Oh, and you've been a little hard on yourself about your ability to play IMO...

My one lead clip ("No, My Name Is NOT Edward") got several comments about bad tone, so I've been wanting to improve it. In that time, I've been making changes to my rhythm tone, so the lead sound is now different, too. Perhaps that's enough, I dunno.

I don't honestly know what I'm looking for in a lead tone; I was suprised by the negative comments on the last one. My ears are not very educated re. lead sound, so I'm looking for guidance. I've never even thought about a standalone lead sound before; I find a rhythm sound I like, & that's been the end of it.

Thanks for the compliment re. ability. I'm limited in that what you hear in these clips is pretty much my complete repertoire. I also play totally free-form, with no knowledge of where I am or should be. If I put down a backing track & tried to play over it, I would have no idea what would or wouldn't work. If I attempted that, all I would do is start with the riff's root note, & try to end somewhere near it. Keys, scales, modes, it's all Greek to me.

I'd tame some presence or treble..smooths out a lot.

Thanks! I'll try it.

 

[JohnnyGuitar]

Re: Help me get a lead tone!

I don't honestly know what I'm looking for in a lead tone; I was suprised by the negative comments on the last one. My ears are not very educated re. lead sound, so I'm looking for guidance. I've never even thought about a standalone lead sound before; I find a rhythm sound I like, & that's been the end of it.

Thanks for the compliment re. ability. I'm limited in that what you hear in these clips is pretty much my complete repertoire. I also play totally free-form, with no knowledge of where I am or should be. If I put down a backing track & tried to play over it, I would have no idea what would or wouldn't work. If I attempted that, all I would do is start with the riff's root note, & try to end somewhere near it. Keys, scales, modes, it's all Greek to me.

About your ability- I do think you need to work on learnning a few new scales (first go for exotic!!!!! think of how cool it would be!!!!)... I heard in your playing that you need to get some more theoretical knowledge or develope your own- where I'm going to while soloing (like EVH did). Metal solos sound cool when they have some quircky tone in them... check out some things by Dimebag, EVH when he gets wild, etc... so there you're in the right direction.

What I got to thinking about after reading your post, is about a few things you can do:
1. Get a Wah pedal. There are metal players which have mostly one difference in there lead tone- turnning on a Cry Baby.
2. Go for a Tom Morello thing- get a few weird filters (he uses a tremolo and a wah for it actually), and go for solos from outer space. if you want people to think about smokinw tone... make your guitar a spce guitar... I think it's way cool, you can do a solo of weird alian attack sounds and then end it with a fast shredding line... (My muses are starting to work right now )
3. I hardly use effects (then again, I hardly play metal). To me going for a solo is raising the guitar volume from 5 to 10... having a lead tone is not a must.. if you're always playing on 10 just get a boost/second overdrive pedal.
4. I liked your tone... if someone hates it it's your problem. Anyway, you need to decide how you want to sound like and go there. Thinking about I sound bad, I'll just keep changing things until I stumble on something has less chances of getting you somewhere.

 

[Bludave]

Re: Help me get a lead tone!

You need to get rid of that box thingy and plug into a real tube amp. These "simulators" always sound crappy to my ears. Good tone comes from hard work, Lots of practice and lots of experimenting. What works for one may not work for another. Slow down!! Music is meant to be absorbed and enjoyed. When you play incredibly fast at first its impressive, than it gets boring. I went to see Steve Vai last year. The first 20 minutes was very impressive after that I could have left! I personally would rather listen to B.B. King play one note that will cut you in half than a shredder try to play a million notes faster than anybody else. One note........ if its the right note is all you need!

 

[davedvdy]

Re: Help me get a lead tone!

The tone sounds VERY thin to my ears. Mic one good amp. I have a GT-6, that sounds excellent for lead tones, and great straight into recording equipment since it doesn't add that "plastic" sound to the tone like most Amp Modelers.

I am confused because in your opening post you state that you left the cab and mic choices alone. Are you even using the amp simulation then? It looks like you have a virtual compressor and gate turned on, I would definitely those off, that could very well be part of the problem.

 

[Erlend_G]

Re: Help me get a lead tone!

Whoa, that really sounded digital

Try using alot less gain, more mids, and even less gain. That will help alot

 

[CGord]

Re: Help me get a lead tone!

You need to get rid of that box thingy and plug into a real tube amp. These "simulators" always sound crappy to my ears.

Money dictates that this is my recording setup for the time being, & probably the next few years. While I'd enjoy buying a 6505 head, a cab, a mic, & all the software to get a real good home recording studio going, reality is the GuitarPort is gonna be here awhile. I can accept it if you believe it'll never sound good.

The tone sounds VERY thin to my ears. Mic one good amp. I have a GT-6, that sounds excellent for lead tones, and great straight into recording equipment since it doesn't add that "plastic" sound to the tone like most Amp Modelers.

I don't have one good amp. I don't own any mics or other recording gear. Aside for the GuitarPort, I have an old Peavey Bandit 112 combo, a DigiTech RP300, & an inexpensive bass combo amp.

I am confused because in your opening post you state that you left the cab and mic choices alone. Are you even using the amp simulation then? It looks like you have a virtual compressor and gate turned on, I would definitely those off, that could very well be part of the problem.

What I meant by that is I wanted to keep the available cab & mic choices out of the equation. There are two dozen cab choices & four mics; since the file I posted already has eight different tone samples in it, I figured I'd better stop there for now.

So yes, I am using the amp simulation. The posted clip is: EMG 81 bridge > gate > Tube Screamer > 5150 > 4x12 cab w/Celestion V30's, dynamic mic > compression > reverb. The other seven examples switch between bridge & neck pups, the 5150 & Uberschall amp models, & with & without the Tube Screamer model. Adding cab & mic choices to the mix felt excessive, though if you guys wanna hear 'em, I'll post 'em.

Whoa, that really sounded digital

Try using alot less gain, more mids, and even less gain. That will help alot

I think the TS effect might be responsible for a lot of the "digital" sound. Other than all of it being digital, anyway.

Everyone, if all you've heard is the one clip example, please check out the others; I'd like your opinions on the those tones as well. Also, the other pics show the settings for each individual effect in use; the one example I posted shows the amp settings & mic choice only.