help needed with P-rail installation

[Hundredweight]

Hi folks. I have a guitar I'd like to fit a P-rail into.
The guitar has one volume, and two toggle switches already installed in the body.
So would it be possible to wire the P-rail so that the two parts of it (the P90 and the rail) are each controlled by one of the toggle switches?

Does a wiring diagram exist for the P-rail with two toggle switches?

Many thanks for any help anyone can offer!

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: help needed with P-rail installation

Welcome to the forum.

You could adapt the SD schematic diagram for governing two P-Rails pickups via two push-pull pots. In your case, imagine the switch portions of the push-pull pots as being physically separate from the rotary volume/tone portions.

Normally, at this point, I would post a hyperlink to the diagram of which I speak. With the site Support/Wiring Diagrams section currently being as screwed up as it is, I can not furnish the information.

Sorry.

 

[Hundredweight]

Re: help needed with P-rail installation

Thank you - yes I will have a look at that one, I was hoping to find the closest/simplest diagram for my situation.
I suppose what I'm trying to achieve is very much like having a TripleShot pickup ring, I believe they have two 2-position switches on them.
But with the Tripleshots little board that you solder onto, it doesn't seem like something I can duplicate just by looking at it. I'll browse the diagrams!

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: help needed with P-rail installation

Wire one for Series/Parallel, the other for On/Off of each coil (assuming the switches are 3-position DPDT).

 

[Hundredweight]

Re: help needed with P-rail installation

Wire one for Series/Parallel, the other for On/Off of each coil (assuming the switches are 3-position DPDT).

The existing two toggle switches are 2-position DPDT. So I was thinking I could have one switch turning the P90 on/off, and the other switch turning the rail on/off.
So when they were both on, that would be the humbucker setting. Does that make sense?

I suppose I could replace one of them with a 3-position DPDT, and do as you suggest (make the second switch for Series/Parallel)

 

[Liko]

Re: help needed with P-rail installation

Actually, I set up a scheme using two DPDTs that gives you all the combinations while keeping the action of one switch constant (unlike the normal Triple Shot scheme). Basically you wire both halves of a Triple Shot into one DPDT, then use a phase reversal switch to flip one half of the switch to get the combinations where the Triple Shot switches are opposite. The net result is that the phase reversal switch chooses between single coil and HB, while the other switch is the coil select in single coil, and series-parallel in HB mode. Let me find the wiring diagram...

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

 

[Mincer]

Re: help needed with P-rail installation

Actually, I set up a scheme using two DPDTs that gives you all the combinations while keeping the action of one switch constant (unlike the normal Triple Shot scheme). Basically you wire both halves of a Triple Shot into one DPDT, then use a phase reversal switch to flip one half of the switch to get the combinations where the Triple Shot switches are opposite. The net result is that the phase reversal switch chooses between single coil and HB, while the other switch is the coil select in single coil, and series-parallel in HB mode. Let me find the wiring diagram...

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

This is a great idea. My only problem with the Triple Shots is that there are many sounds that take 3 or more moves to get to. Personally, I found a handful of sounds I liked, and if I was to do it again, I would hard-wire those 5 sounds to a switch.

 

[Liko]

Re: help needed with P-rail installation

Well, there's always a tradeoff, isn't there. You either need some option to select every combination possible, or you give up some of the possibilities to get a "favorites list" with a 5- or 7-way superswitch. Personally I think either way you'll want to depend on the knife switch while playing to switch between a rhythm and lead tone, and use the other controls to put the guitar in a state where the knife switch selects the tones you want. If your rhythm tone is an LP's middle and your lead tone is bridge P-90, then you might consider a favorites list.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: help needed with P-rail installation

Actually, I set up a scheme using two DPDTs that gives you all the combinations while keeping the action of one switch constant (unlike the normal Triple Shot scheme). Basically you wire both halves of a Triple Shot into one DPDT, then use a phase reversal switch to flip one half of the switch to get the combinations where the Triple Shot switches are opposite. The net result is that the phase reversal switch chooses between single coil and HB, while the other switch is the coil select in single coil, and series-parallel in HB mode. Let me find the wiring diagram...

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

I'd like to see the diagram for that. The way you described it, it doesn't sound possible.

 

[Liko]

Re: help needed with P-rail installation

I'd like to see the diagram for that. The way you described it, it doesn't sound possible.

Here it is:

Think of the switch on the left as being the same as the two SPDTs of a Triple Shot ring, only because they're both controlled by the same switch, they can't be set opposite of each other... until you bring the right switch into play. The right switch uses an ordinary phase-reversal circuit to essentially swap the outer terminals on the upper half of the switch, thus changing the relative orientation of that side of the switch. You might be asking, "what's the advantage over the basic Triple Shots", and IMO the advantage is that the right switch always does exactly one thing (HB/SC selection), and what the left switch does changes in a logical way based on the position of the other. The circuit is fairly complex to trace through but it really does work (unless I didn't translate it from the pencil and paper diagram into Vizio correctly).

 

[sharp]

Re: help needed with P-rail installation

Seems like Liko's diagram can do the job, but it's too complicated - it uses all contacts of both DPDT to control only one PRail.

In order to use serial/parallel/rail/p90 with two dpdt you could use this wiring

In this case you can switch 2 PRails with one click between rail/series or rail/parallel or p90/series or p90/parallel
Two clicks is needed to switch between seriel/parallel and rail/p90

Or use this to get serial/rail/p90

 

[sharp]

Re: help needed with P-rail installation

Hi folks. I have a guitar I'd like to fit a P-rail into.
The guitar has one volume, and two toggle switches already installed in the body.
So would it be possible to wire the P-rail so that the two parts of it (the P90 and the rail) are each controlled by one of the toggle switches?

Does a wiring diagram exist for the P-rail with two toggle switches?

Many thanks for any help anyone can offer!

This can be done in this way (orange wire is link, it connects both coils in series):

If both DPDT in Up position, then red/white connected together, green/bare to ground, black is hot = full humbucker (in series)
If left UP and right DOWN, then red/white/green/bare goes to ground, black is hot = one coil
If left DOWN and right UP, then green/bare goes to ground, white/red shorted to black, black is hot = another coil
If both DOWN, then every wire from pickup goes to ground = killswitch for free.

And you can use second half of both DPDTs for second P-Rail

 

[Liko]

Re: help needed with P-rail installation

Seems like Liko's diagram can do the job, but it's too complicated - it uses all contacts of both DPDT to control only one PRail.

In order to use serial/parallel/rail/p90 with two dpdt you could use this wiring

In this case you can switch 2 PRails with one click between rail/series or rail/parallel or p90/series or p90/parallel
Two clicks is needed to switch between seriel/parallel and rail/p90

Or use this to get serial/rail/p90

These setups are good too; the first one is a "Double Triple Shot" with one pair of switches controlling both pickups TS style. But, tradeoffs; you can't have different behaviors on each pickup, like a P-90 neck and parallel HB bridge. For an HH setup this isn't a big loss, you'll probably want hum-cancelling combinations anyway, and only matching single coils or HBs will be. For HSH or HSS, though, you'll want the ability to select different combinations of singles to get hum-cancelling behavior in all pickup combinations.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

 

[Hundredweight]

Re: help needed with P-rail installation

This can be done in this way (orange wire is link, it connects both coils in series):View attachment 70111

If both DPDT in Up position, then red/white connected together, green/bare to ground, black is hot = full humbucker (in series)
If left UP and right DOWN, then red/white/green/bare goes to ground, black is hot = one coil
If left DOWN and right UP, then green/bare goes to ground, white/red shorted to black, black is hot = another coil
If both DOWN, then every wire from pickup goes to ground = killswitch for free.

And you can use second half of both DPDTs for second P-Rail

Yes! I think this is the one for me. Thank you so much!
Can't wait to try it.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: help needed with P-rail installation

Yes! I think this is the one for me. Thank you so much!
Can't wait to try it.

But you miss out on the parallel sound, which is a much better sound than the series sound. And having the kill switch incorporated into the pup selector switch is very dangerous...in the heat of the moment it's very easy to make the wrong combination and totally cut out right in the middle of playing (probably during the lead).

No, a better idea is to use Liko's diagram in post #9 (which I checked out - it does work fine), and use a separate switch (SPDT toggle) for the kill switch.