HELP: SD CS Tallboy P90s for Gretsch (but also a std. P90 MAGNETS question...)

R

ruger9

New member
I just got a set of the Tallboy P90s, the ones they stuff into Filtertron covers.... they are A5, I ordered A2, so MJ screwed up. Before I send them back.... I actually like the A5 in the neck position, and am afraid an A2 might lose too much definition (they are in a hollowbody: Gretsch Hot Rod), but the bridge is to weak/bright/harsh FOR ME. Sounds really good- just very vintage. Very Scotty Moore. I like my bridge pups a bit hotter, with less treble (which is usually achieved by the higher winds).

If I change the bridge to A2, in an attempt to warm it up, do you think it will be too weak compared to the neck A5? The neck is wound 6.2k, the bridge 6.4k (I told MJ to make them as close to the Antiquities as she could, but there's a limited amount of room for winds in these pickups compared to a full-size P90). I actually don't mind the underwind, the pickups sund good, especially since this is a hollowbody, but that bridge needs to be beefed up, and apparently they can't do any more winds, I guess....

Also, the neck is as low as it can go- on the wood. And the bridge is as high as it can go, so I have no room for adjustment on the volumes.

I LOVE the neck, makes me want to put my Power'tron back in the bridge and be done with it, but.....

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated... these are expensive pups, and before I go spending time trying to "get them right", a little info from you in the know could save me alot of "trouble" (I'd just sell them as is to someone looking for a vintage P90 sound, and move on)
 
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Re: HELP: SD CS Tallboy P90s for Gretsch (but also a std. P90 MAGNETS question...)

...a lone tumbleweed rolls by....
 
Re: HELP: SD CS Tallboy P90s for Gretsch (but also a std. P90 MAGNETS question...)

ruger9 said:
...a lone tumbleweed rolls by....
Click to expand...

Hey Eric~ I thought Derek contacted you and had this taken care of? Sending off the bridge to wind hotter yes?

You have additional unanswered questions?

If indeed you have the A5 in the bridge pickups now (which I don't think you do based on our conversation) and you switch to A2 and get the pickups wound hotter, then yes you will likely sacrifice too much clarity, despite your goal for more mid growl. It may be too much. If instead you find that MJ put A2 in there to begin with (which I believe is the case) then a hotter wind and an A4 or A5 roughcast mag will do great under the Filtertron cover.

Hope that helps,

Cheers,

RG
 
Re: HELP: SD CS Tallboy P90s for Gretsch (but also a std. P90 MAGNETS question...)

Hey, RG...


No, everything's cool... I was just trying to be funny, regarding the TOTAL LACK of any knowledge of these pickups on this forum, apparently...lol
 
Re: HELP: SD CS Tallboy P90s for Gretsch (but also a std. P90 MAGNETS question...)

ruger9 said:
Hey, RG...


No, everything's cool... I was just trying to be funny, regarding the TOTAL LACK of any knowledge of these pickups on this forum, apparently...lol
Click to expand...

LOL! That's funny.

Good to hear though. And yes...not much Filtertron action here on the SD board and even less Custom Shop, Pseudo P-90, Single Coil, Dangerously Over wound hand cut bobbins, stuffed inside Filtertron covers drilled down the center for pole piece variety. It's not discussed much despite how great they sound, LOL! You and I would be the first in a while. If these were even remotely close to stock P-90s or even HB sized P-90s, More users would contribute their knowledge. Its really a special one-off wind. I look forward to hearing the rewind.

BTW...on a Gretschy note...my custom Dyno-Brain shipped (with Abby switch compliments of Mr. Vega). Tavo is such a cool and talented gent. It is a handsome devil of a tone purifier. And the TV Supertrons for the neck of my 6119's arrived today. I am a blessed dude.

View attachment 52725

Have a great weekend!

Cheers!

RG
 
Re: HELP: SD CS Tallboy P90s for Gretsch (but also a std. P90 MAGNETS question...)

Thanks again for the help, RG. I'll keep you updated.

I have one of the first Nocturne Brains (before they even became "Dyno" brains)- #8, I think. Cool paint job on that one.

So far, these SD CS P90 Tallboys seem to be a blend of a P90 and a Filtertron.... making up for the weaknesses of the Filtertron (mushy humbuckery low end), while still remaining "Gretschy". I have kept the neck, sent the bridge back. Derek said he'll look out for the package, and I hope he contacts me with info on what they do (I requested he did, since I also need to find out what I actually have in the neck pickup anyway). I told him "I'm not necessarily requesting you put A2 in that pickup (it may have A2 in it, we don't know at this point), I just want you guys to do WHATEVER YOU CAN to try to get it a little hotter with more mids... any magnet, any wire, how ever many winds... whatever the construction will allow you to do."
 
Re: HELP: SD CS Tallboy P90s for Gretsch (but also a std. P90 MAGNETS question...)

RG:

quick question.... I put the TVJ Powertron back in the bridge, so I can use the guitar while I wait for the CS return... the middle position seems to be out-of-phase... I know you reverse the hot and ground to put it back in phase, I just don't remember... with 3 wires (hot, ground, shield) on the TVJ white is hot, black and ground are soldered together... to reverse the phase, I use the black as hot and solder the white and shield together, right?

Wait a sec, just found this on Gretsch forum:

I have replaced the stock bridge pickup on my ProJet with HS Filtertron, soldered the cables on the same place as was the stock one. After that I had the out of phase sound in the middle position. So I inverted the cables from the new bridge Filtertron. Now the sound in the middle position is in phase but when I touch the pickup on the bridge I get a lot of hiss and humm. When I touch the same way the stock neck pickup nothing happend. Also when I touch pole piece of the Filtertron on bridge with the string pushed down the sound gets totally bypassed. Can anyone help me please solve this problem? Thanks a lot

[reply]
Any pup which has a metal casing must be earthed. A metal cased pup with two wires has one end of the coil connected to the ground wire inside the pup and the other end of the coil connects to the second wire. Importantly, it means that you now have dedicated ground and hot wires, and no means by which to reverse the phase of the pup from outside.

When you switched the connections around to rectify the 'out of phase' problem you made the casing part of the 'hot' circuit. This means lots of static, buzz, etc. Even touching the pup casing and string at the same time would probably kill the signal, let alone a nice grounded string.

ok, so...If I am reading the above correctly, while I can correct the phase issue by reversing the hot and ground (I'd be doing it on the powertron, but it wouldn't mater which pickup because they both have grounded metal cases), while it would fix the phase issue, it would also create the new problem of the Powertron case becoming part of the "hot" circuit? Do I understand that right?

Which would mean, I'll just have to not play in the middle position until my bridge P90 Tallboy comes back from the SD Custom Shop...
 
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Re: HELP: SD CS Tallboy P90s for Gretsch (but also a std. P90 MAGNETS question...)

ruger9 said:
RG:

quick question.... I put the TVJ Powertron back in the bridge, so I can use the guitar while I wait for the CS return... the middle position seems to be out-of-phase... I know you reverse the hot and ground to put it back in phase, I just don't remember... with 3 wires (hot, ground, shield) on the TVJ white is hot, black and ground are soldered together... to reverse the phase, I use the black as hot and solder the white and shield together, right?
Click to expand...

Yep... you got it!

Hope you got yourself some surgical tubing! LOL! Cheers! RG
 
Re: HELP: SD CS Tallboy P90s for Gretsch (but also a std. P90 MAGNETS question...)

ruger9 said:
RG:

quick question.... I put the TVJ Powertron back in the bridge, so I can use the guitar while I wait for the CS return... the middle position seems to be out-of-phase... I know you reverse the hot and ground to put it back in phase, I just don't remember... with 3 wires (hot, ground, shield) on the TVJ white is hot, black and ground are soldered together... to reverse the phase, I use the black as hot and solder the white and shield together, right?

Wait a sec, just found this on Gretsch forum:

I have replaced the stock bridge pickup on my ProJet with HS Filtertron, soldered the cables on the same place as was the stock one. After that I had the out of phase sound in the middle position. So I inverted the cables from the new bridge Filtertron. Now the sound in the middle position is in phase but when I touch the pickup on the bridge I get a lot of hiss and humm. When I touch the same way the stock neck pickup nothing happend. Also when I touch pole piece of the Filtertron on bridge with the string pushed down the sound gets totally bypassed. Can anyone help me please solve this problem? Thanks a lot

[reply]
Any pup which has a metal casing must be earthed. A metal cased pup with two wires has one end of the coil connected to the ground wire inside the pup and the other end of the coil connects to the second wire. Importantly, it means that you now have dedicated ground and hot wires, and no means by which to reverse the phase of the pup from outside.

When you switched the connections around to rectify the 'out of phase' problem you made the casing part of the 'hot' circuit. This means lots of static, buzz, etc. Even touching the pup casing and string at the same time would probably kill the signal, let alone a nice grounded string.

ok, so...If I am reading the above correctly, while I can correct the phase issue by reversing the hot and ground (I'd be doing it on the powertron, but it wouldn't mater which pickup because they both have grounded metal cases), while it would fix the phase issue, it would also create the new problem of the Powertron case becoming part of the "hot" circuit? Do I understand that right?

Which would mean, I'll just have to not play in the middle position until my bridge P90 Tallboy comes back from the SD Custom Shop...
Click to expand...

OK...so I came back and this extra info was added.

No, you will be fine Eric. The ground wire itself is soldered to the case. Do as you were...remove the plain wire from the BLACK Powertron and connect it to the WHITE. Now ground the WHITE and PLAIN to the back of the pot and use the BLACK as hot. The cover is not part of the hot circuit. Solder-away and enjoy that Hot Rod!

Cheers,

RG
 
Re: HELP: SD CS Tallboy P90s for Gretsch (but also a std. P90 MAGNETS question...)

Nice! Thanks!


Rodney Gene said:
OK...so I came back and this extra info was added.

No, you will be fine Eric. The ground wire itself is soldered to the case. Do as you were...remove the plain wire from the BLACK Powertron and connect it to the WHITE. Now ground the WHITE and PLAIN to the back of the pot and use the BLACK as hot. The cover is not part of the hot circuit. Solder-away and enjoy that Hot Rod!

Cheers,

RG
Click to expand...
 
Re: HELP: SD CS Tallboy P90s for Gretsch (but also a std. P90 MAGNETS question...)

MUCH better. Had to raise the neck P90 a bit to balance out the volume with the bridge Powertron.... otherwise, they balance pretty nicely... more of an old school P90 sound from the neck, a very modern Setzer growl from the bridge, and in-between a jangly-enough Grestchy thing.... eagerly awaiting my P90 bridge rebuild...
 
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