Help with a Carvin CT4 into a VHT Deliverance... new forumite

[FPFL]

Greetings,

I've been trolling the Net for ideas on how to fix my rig's tone and liked the vendor neutral vibe in this forum especially so I figured I'd ask a question that people probably ask a lot here in some form...

Disclaimer: I did search the forum history for tips and found nothing that exactly touched my my rig so please give me the benefit of that doubt. I'm not Google but I tried that first to spare the veterans.

But on to my problem -

I've got a Carvin CT4, and while not a Carvin brand slave, I can honestly say is a great guitar in playability and build. The pickups however are not worthy of the wood. I've got a VHT Deliverance 60 which is really neat, flexible amp that is built like an absolute tank - but its too damn bright. This amp does not need hot output pickups and would defintely benefit from a smooth pickup that calms its extremely aggressive top end detail and attack.

The only SD pickups I'v got are the SD's that come stock in an ESP LTD Eclipse EC-1000 - a rock solid guitar for a good price IMO. Those pickups, JB/59, do well better than the Carvin's but they don't do everything I'm hoping in smoothing out the mid / high bite.

What do people go for when they don't need a super hot humbucker pickup and want a relaxed high mid + top end? I play hard rock and metal but not the detuned sludge. I'm in drop D flat a lot but thats about as low as I get. I like gain but not mountains of it.

Many thanks in advance. I'm happy to give more detail if people think it helps.

Paul


www.blackcalifornia.net

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: Help with a Carvin CT4 into a VHT Deliverance... new forumite

Welcome to the forum.


From what you described, I think you should try what I use in my Carvin (127-T). I use a Pearly Gates bridge model humbucker in the neck and a Custom Custom in the bridge. It's a smooth, thick sounding combination that works great for pretty much any musical style.

 

[FPFL]

Re: Help with a Carvin CT4 into a VHT Deliverance... new forumite

Thanks for the feedback. I was leaning towards the custom custom after reading the tone charts and then listening to some of the comparison clips forumites had posted here. I forget whose they were but it was a C5 vs a CC and it was a very helpful clip so my forgetful thanks to them.

I'm going to order the CC and if that is the fit I will check out the PG for the neck next. I find using the bridge PU in the neck slot interesting... why did you go that way?

On a related note, I watched Seymour's video on how to swap PUs - doesn't look too intimidating. I look forward to trying it myself! Honestly, I've been playing for 14 years now and its a little embarassing I've never swapped PUs before.

A lot of people would just ditch the amp and start over, but this is my first VHT and I have to say they are impressive, tweakable heads. The build quality is astoundingly good. I've never had an amp that is so reassuringly there for me and I've had years with Line6, Marshall and Carvin amps before this.

-Pablo


ps - do you guys have a favorite place to get your SD's? I'm usually at zzounds or wildwestguitars for stuff even though I live in Boston, MA.



-P

 

[BloodRose]

Re: Help with a Carvin CT4 into a VHT Deliverance... new forumite

Welcome!! Carvin guitars are great!! But they do tend to have a high end bite as you nicely put it. Do you have a trem or hard tail? I have a SC90 with a Floyd and I put a pearly gates in the neck and in the bridge I run a Blues Saraceno Trembucker by Duncan. It is a VERY fat sounding pup and it isnt too hot so you can get sweet tone from it, or hot tones with a hot amp.
CC would be a good choice with a hard tail.
Let us know what works for ya..

 

[FPFL]

Re: Help with a Carvin CT4 into a VHT Deliverance... new forumite

BR,

Cool. The PG is a big hit in the neck it seems! Do you use a bridge PG in the neck as well?

My CT4 is a hard tail, birdseye maple neck and stainless steel frets. I love the playability. I knew it was the right fit for me when I picked up one and it felt like it wasn't there right away, know what I mean?

My new rig is all about less - as in as little as possible stuff... to keep me focused 100% on the playing and putting out live energy. Dont' tap dance on pedals for small changes 99% of the audience won't care about (I only bring a strobostomp tuner and Digitech EX-7), don't change channels for clean, use the volume knob (the VHT Dev60 has but one channel and two modes of OD for the one channel). I do change tunings a lot and the convenience of the hard tail radically outweighs missinng the occassional dive bomb and the sustain can't be beaten. My backup axe is a Ernie Ball Music Man Axis and when I need the joy of whammy it is there for me.

The CT4 is #1 for me but the PUs are not. I just dropped the order for the CC with musicians friend. Zzounds was out. I don't want to change too much at once and lose sight of the goal so once I'm settled on a bridge PU I'll experiement with the neck.

Stay well,

Paul

I run my amp hot but not scorching. I call it mid-gain. If I dig in it thuds and screams but if I lighten my touch the tone cleans up some.

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: Help with a Carvin CT4 into a VHT Deliverance... new forumite

I used a PGb because my 127-T is all maple with an ebony fretboard and 24 frets. I don't like muddy neck pickups, but in this particular guitar, I did need some more warmth and thickness, which is why I chose the PGb over the neck PG.

 

[BloodRose]

Re: Help with a Carvin CT4 into a VHT Deliverance... new forumite

I'll have to check if that PG is a bridge model or not.. Im a big fan of using the 59bridge model in the neck position as it gives a little more for a "smokey" blues tone.

Let us know how the pup works! Im also a huge fan of the custom series of pickups. Use them often and tailor the tone with magnet swaps to get what I want from each guitar.
I hear great things about the Carvin CTS and would love to have one of those and a C66. One day... They play like butter... Mine has mahogany back and neck to offset the brightness and flame maple (purple) top.
Birdseye and stainless frets..... YUMMY

 

[frehley]

Re: Help with a Carvin CT4 into a VHT Deliverance... new forumite

FPFL,
Did you say the Carvin pups aren't worthy of the wood? Wow, that's the first
time I've ever heard that. I own a CT6M and I too tried replacing the pups.
First I tried my favorite Duncan set-up, a DD in the bridge and a Full Shred in the neck. Didn't like them, so I tried a Custom in the bridge with the FS still in the neck.Still not better than the C22B/N pups that were in there. Those pups are the s**t and nothing came close to them on that guitar. I loved the Carvin pups to begin with but I thought I would find something better.....
didn't find it. To each their own I guess.

 

[sosomething]

Re: Help with a Carvin CT4 into a VHT Deliverance... new forumite

When it actually comes down to replacing the pickups, you might find this thread useful. I recently replaced both pickups in my CT4C. I too found them way too bright - especially the C22B.

If I'm not mistaken, your VHT runs on KT88s, right? That's the same set-up as my Splawn, so I'm thinking our rigs are pretty similar. As a side note, I'm not a Carvin fanboy either, but I'm really impressed with my Carve Top.

Good luck.

 

[FPFL]

Re: Help with a Carvin CT4 into a VHT Deliverance... new forumite

FPFL,
Did you say the Carvin pups aren't worthy of the wood? Wow, that's the first
time I've ever heard that. I own a CT6M and I too tried replacing the pups.
First I tried my favorite Duncan set-up, a DD in the bridge and a Full Shred in the neck. Didn't like them, so I tried a Custom in the bridge with the FS still in the neck.Still not better than the C22B/N pups that were in there. Those pups are the s**t and nothing came close to them on that guitar. I loved the Carvin pups to begin with but I thought I would find something better.....
didn't find it. To each their own I guess.

Who knows, I could be wrong about there being better pups for it, and I'm going to find out. Please understand, I actually do like the pickups but I think the guitar is mega-fabulous....so its not that the stock pups suck, I just think there could be better ones for me in my current too bright rig. Ironically, I like the neck pup in the CT4 more than the bridge, where I want the highs smoothed out some and wouldn't mind seeing the output go down a little too.

Part of it could also be that I've grown very used to the JB / 59 in my ESP that I've played for two solid years pre-CT4... and those sound nothing like the Carvin pups. Like you, I honestly can't know until I try other things. I've lived too long assuming stock was there for a reason and I'll see what my swaps bring.

 

[FPFL]

Re: Help with a Carvin CT4 into a VHT Deliverance... new forumite

When it actually comes down to replacing the pickups, you might find this thread useful. I recently replaced both pickups in my CT4C. I too found them way too bright - especially the C22B.

If I'm not mistaken, your VHT runs on KT88s, right? That's the same set-up as my Splawn, so I'm thinking our rigs are pretty similar. As a side note, I'm not a Carvin fanboy either, but I'm really impressed with my Carve Top.

Good luck.

Soso,

Thanks for the link! Yes, I think the stock pups could be great with a darker rig, but like you, mine is anything but dark. I love the Dev60 and am curious about the splawn... If the Dev ultimately flames out even after all this tweaking the Splawn, or maybe a bogner shiva would be my next choice to try.

Hey, I just read that link, when you swapped pups and added SD's did you go thru the same method on the page, i.e. did you have to toast the original pups rings or any other parts? I've not done any swaps before so I'm trying to learn as much as I can before I start taking things apart.

What would you compare the Splawn too? I've heard some great clips... I've owned a Marshall DSL 50 and still have a Carvin Legacy if you want to know my points of reference.

Many thanks!

-P

 

[tone4days]

Re: Help with a Carvin CT4 into a VHT Deliverance... new forumite

i think you might really like a PG neck or even an alnico II pro neck with a CC bridge ... if you want this guitar to have a different tonal range than the ESP, you might want to consider putting a set of Alnico 2 Seth Lover pickups ni the carvin to give you a more vintage vibe ...

be prepared to deal with buying and installing new pickup rings unless you want to do some major surgery (and ultimately destroy) the carvin pups ...

good luck
t4d

 

[sosomething]

Re: Help with a Carvin CT4 into a VHT Deliverance... new forumite

Soso,
Hey, I just read that link, when you swapped pups and added SD's did you go thru the same method on the page, i.e. did you have to toast the original pups rings or any other parts? I've not done any swaps before so I'm trying to learn as much as I can before I start taking things apart.

Actually I haven't added SDs to the Carvin - I did the mods described in that thread just last week, so right now I'm still living with the DMZs. I wanted to use the Carvin pickup rings because of the greater amount of control they offer with the angle-adjustment screws. All I had to do to them was lightly file out the insides a little bit to make the new pickups fit through them. I don't have any SD pups laying around here at the moment, but I think that most of them have rectangular tabs with one hole, so if you wanted to do what I did and solder the Carvin pickup tabs to them you might have to snip off the edges of the SD tabs so the screws can fit past them.

Most important before you start is to make sure you have the right tools for the job. I've screwed up more stuff because I wasn't prepared and tried to work with what I had than I would like to admit. You'll need a phillips-head screwdriver, a small pair of needle-nose pliers, some heavy pliers (for snapping off the Carvin pickup tabs), a file or sandpaper, wire strippers, and a good soldering gun that gets hot enough to make solder flow properly. After that if you just take your time, go one step and a time and "measure twice and cut once," you'll find that it's easier than you probably think. There are a lot of good resources on the web for help replacing pickups yourself. I think there's even a tutorial hosted on the SD website.

What would you compare the Splawn too? I've heard some great clips... I've owned a Marshall DSL 50 and still have a Carvin Legacy if you want to know my points of reference.

Many thanks!

-P

The other guitarist in my band has a VHT UL 100 running KT88s, and my Splawn Pro Mod is closer tonally to THAT amp than either the Legacy or the DSL. Those two amps can be dialed in to sound very similar, especially through the same kind of cab. It's basically a hot-rodded Plexi or JCM 800 - there's that Marshally "Bark" and a lot of smooth mids to the amp, but it has more bass and is capable of way, way, way more gain. I think I had the gain knob at like 10:00 for the clip in my sig.

And you're welcome!

 

[FPFL]

rosetta stone for carvin to S.D. pups...

rosetta stone for carvin to S.D. pups...

I think I've figured it out, the color key for four pole Carvin to SD. If someone thinks I've goofed it I'd appreciate correction.

The Carvin green and white combined wire are the white and red wire for SD pups. The black "hot" wire is the same for both. The grounded shield is easy to map as it the plain green grounded wire.

I know this is probably childs play to some of the pros here but its very new for me.

I'm dropping the CC in this weekend. I've got a prime gig and some recording to do so I hope the CC is a better fit than the Carvin stock pup I've got! I miss my #1 axe and seeing it in pieces is killing me.

-P

 

[Xeromus]

Re: Help with a Carvin CT4 into a VHT Deliverance... new forumite

custom custom bridge!

 

[FPFL]

Re: Help with a Carvin CT4 into a VHT Deliverance... new forumite

also, as for the p-up rings, I filled in the holes I didn't need with black epoxy and used a hot metal point to create the right sized hole where I needed one to hold the pup. This entirely spares me messing with the actual pups themselves and though I've got screwed everything in yet, sitting loosely it seems to fit.

This strikes me as a better way than messing with the pups themselves.

-P

 

[sosomething]

Re: Help with a Carvin CT4 into a VHT Deliverance... new forumite

also, as for the p-up rings, I filled in the holes I didn't need with black epoxy and used a hot metal point to create the right sized hole where I needed one to hold the pup. This entirely spares me messing with the actual pups themselves and though I've got screwed everything in yet, sitting loosely it seems to fit.

This strikes me as a better way than messing with the pups themselves.

-P

Might be better for you - me, I wanted the added control over the pickup angle as well as pickup height, so I used the original holes in the rings.

For your earlier question about color codes for the wires, if you haven't already check out this link. GuitarElectronics.com has put together a chart of all the major pickup manufacturers and aligned their color codes - it's been extremely helpful to me.

 

[FPFL]

Re: Help with a Carvin CT4 into a VHT Deliverance... new forumite

soso,

I'm not wholly against more permanent mods, such as you did, but I'm still learning about the whole pup swap thing and being able to fail back to previous is worth a lot to me at this point. I actually ordered spare mounting rings from Carvin. At $1.50 each it seems crazy not to. They don't advertise these on their site but if you call up you can get them for any guitar they sell.

guitarelectronics.com is a great site and I did stumble across it, but regretfully there was no Carvin info there that i could find. With the seymour chart in the pups case I was able to reverse engineer it, though I think there is a typo in my message above - the red wire is the hot one.

Have a great weekend,

Paul