Looking for a good 335 copy or close-to with much less than Gibson pricing! Anyone have any idea how the Ibanez Artcore models compare to the Epi Dots? The artcores look very nice. Not concerned with electronics - mostly playability, construction, body tone etc. Anything else out there similar? Anyone played or owned both?
Hollows: Artcore, Dot, ???
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super rad stuff
Skaforlifeologist
Re: Hollows: Artcore, Dot, ???
i've got a dot, and i really wish i got the artcore mainly because of the neck profile, slightly thinner body, and upper fret access. on the dot, the neck gets really fat past the 15th fret or so, with a real chunky heel and hard-to-get-around cutaways. but, both sound decent and are basically the same if your going to be changing around the electronics.
i've got a dot, and i really wish i got the artcore mainly because of the neck profile, slightly thinner body, and upper fret access. on the dot, the neck gets really fat past the 15th fret or so, with a real chunky heel and hard-to-get-around cutaways. but, both sound decent and are basically the same if your going to be changing around the electronics.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Hollows: Artcore, Dot, ???
335's are my favorite guitar. Great warm tones, very comfortable in any position, and what a history of players. I've owned Epiphone, Hamer, Ibanez, Washburn, Peavy, Jay Turser, & New York Pro 335's, and 2 or 3 models of each of brand. I like the Epiphones & Hamers the best; the quality is very good and they have the correct Gibson dimensions, plus I think the materials and construction are a little better than the others. Of course, the PU's need to be upgraded in all of these.
The best are:
- Sheraton - very classy with all the extras, like a 355.
- Dot Deluxe - nice flame top & gold hardware.
- Dot Std - basic workhorse 335. Well made.
- Hamer Echotone - another good solid workhorse, and two discontinued models are especially nice: the amber flame top, and the red Custom (block inlays, gold hardware & trapeze tailpiece).
I've gotten most of these used online at about half the retail price, in excellent condition. Get a set of used Duncan or Gibson PU's too, and you'll have an excellent sounding guitar for a modest investment.
335's are my favorite guitar. Great warm tones, very comfortable in any position, and what a history of players. I've owned Epiphone, Hamer, Ibanez, Washburn, Peavy, Jay Turser, & New York Pro 335's, and 2 or 3 models of each of brand. I like the Epiphones & Hamers the best; the quality is very good and they have the correct Gibson dimensions, plus I think the materials and construction are a little better than the others. Of course, the PU's need to be upgraded in all of these.
The best are:
- Sheraton - very classy with all the extras, like a 355.
- Dot Deluxe - nice flame top & gold hardware.
- Dot Std - basic workhorse 335. Well made.
- Hamer Echotone - another good solid workhorse, and two discontinued models are especially nice: the amber flame top, and the red Custom (block inlays, gold hardware & trapeze tailpiece).
I've gotten most of these used online at about half the retail price, in excellent condition. Get a set of used Duncan or Gibson PU's too, and you'll have an excellent sounding guitar for a modest investment.
Re: Hollows: Artcore, Dot, ???
Artcores are great bang for the buck and theres some really good closeout deals on some at MF, Music123 etc
The overall build quality and workmanship is really much nicer than Epi's for the same price. Thats not to say the Dot's aren't nice guitars as well, but a $300 Artcore has a bit nicer fit and finish than a $450 Epi.
I've never been a huge fan of Ibanez as a whole, but they definatly make nice guitars for the money.
They also have some true full hollowbodies as well, like the AF95 series, and I think the cheaper AF75 as well.
Thicker bodies than a Dot style and full hollow instead of the center block. Bit different sound and tone of course, but I sort of prefer it
Artcores are great bang for the buck and theres some really good closeout deals on some at MF, Music123 etc
The overall build quality and workmanship is really much nicer than Epi's for the same price. Thats not to say the Dot's aren't nice guitars as well, but a $300 Artcore has a bit nicer fit and finish than a $450 Epi.
I've never been a huge fan of Ibanez as a whole, but they definatly make nice guitars for the money.
They also have some true full hollowbodies as well, like the AF95 series, and I think the cheaper AF75 as well.
Thicker bodies than a Dot style and full hollow instead of the center block. Bit different sound and tone of course, but I sort of prefer it
wanmei1
New member
Re: Hollows: Artcore, Dot, ???
I have and do own Epiphones and have owned an Ibanez AS83 which is the Ibanez equivalent of a Casino without quite as much guilding.
About 10 years ago I owned a Casino but found the neck profile ( pre 63 ) just too fat and finally tired of the somewhat overly ornate trimmings.
I traded the Casino for an Ibanez AS83 and later traded the Ibanez on a 98 Gibson 335. I have since added three Epi Dot's.
The Ibanez has a non traditional neck profile but is still very good.
The AS73 is basically a plain version of the 83 and although the neck is not 3 piece construction ala the 83 is great value for money.
I believe you won't be dissapointed with either the Epiphone or the Ibanez.
A word of caution when buying Epiphone Dot's :
The quality varies quite a bit.
Generally the heavier the Dot the better in my experience.
Some Dot's have maple necks while others have mahogany necks.
The mahogany are much preferable in my opinion ( a darker sound )to the maple ( brighter ) if your looking for the rich traditional ES 335 sound ( though some ES-335's were manufactured with maple necks.)
There are also two neck width's :
A fat thick ( commonly referred to as a baseball bat ) neck and what's termed a 1963 profile neck, which is slimmer i.e. not as wide and has a different profile compared to the 50's fat neck.
Most people I think prefer the slimmer narrower 63 neck. ( See earlier post by super rad ska re his dislike of the 50's baseball bat neck on his Dot.)
If every last cent counts then go with the AS73 Ibanez as opposed to the Epi studio where they overstepped the mark cutting corners IMO, but keep in mind that the Epi and the Ibanez will both need their pickups and electronics replaced at a later date. ( not to mention a good set up, a bone nut as well as a decent set of strings. )
If you spend a couple of hours with a few of each guitar you'll most probably bond with one more than the others.
I personally go for Epi's as to me they have a "mojo" that's close to Gibson but you may feel differently.
I have and do own Epiphones and have owned an Ibanez AS83 which is the Ibanez equivalent of a Casino without quite as much guilding.
About 10 years ago I owned a Casino but found the neck profile ( pre 63 ) just too fat and finally tired of the somewhat overly ornate trimmings.
I traded the Casino for an Ibanez AS83 and later traded the Ibanez on a 98 Gibson 335. I have since added three Epi Dot's.
The Ibanez has a non traditional neck profile but is still very good.
The AS73 is basically a plain version of the 83 and although the neck is not 3 piece construction ala the 83 is great value for money.
I believe you won't be dissapointed with either the Epiphone or the Ibanez.
A word of caution when buying Epiphone Dot's :
The quality varies quite a bit.
Generally the heavier the Dot the better in my experience.
Some Dot's have maple necks while others have mahogany necks.
The mahogany are much preferable in my opinion ( a darker sound )to the maple ( brighter ) if your looking for the rich traditional ES 335 sound ( though some ES-335's were manufactured with maple necks.)
There are also two neck width's :
A fat thick ( commonly referred to as a baseball bat ) neck and what's termed a 1963 profile neck, which is slimmer i.e. not as wide and has a different profile compared to the 50's fat neck.
Most people I think prefer the slimmer narrower 63 neck. ( See earlier post by super rad ska re his dislike of the 50's baseball bat neck on his Dot.)
If every last cent counts then go with the AS73 Ibanez as opposed to the Epi studio where they overstepped the mark cutting corners IMO, but keep in mind that the Epi and the Ibanez will both need their pickups and electronics replaced at a later date. ( not to mention a good set up, a bone nut as well as a decent set of strings. )
If you spend a couple of hours with a few of each guitar you'll most probably bond with one more than the others.
I personally go for Epi's as to me they have a "mojo" that's close to Gibson but you may feel differently.
Bludave
New member
Re: Hollows: Artcore, Dot, ???
I own a 335, and have played a lot of the "clones". The Epi is a pretty good guitar, but I prefer the Hamers. I think they are made better & play better. The electronics are not too bad, but changing the PUs may be a given on any of these. That being said I just bought about a month ago the new Gibson 359. Its awesome. Plays flawless & the tone is perfect. Very happy with it.
I own a 335, and have played a lot of the "clones". The Epi is a pretty good guitar, but I prefer the Hamers. I think they are made better & play better. The electronics are not too bad, but changing the PUs may be a given on any of these. That being said I just bought about a month ago the new Gibson 359. Its awesome. Plays flawless & the tone is perfect. Very happy with it.
T
TheArchitect
Guest
Re: Hollows: Artcore, Dot, ???
Yamaha SA2200 or the Washburn clones are both nice
Yamaha SA2200 or the Washburn clones are both nice
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Hollows: Artcore, Dot, ???
But there's two sides to that; I feel Epi's use better materials & have better construction than Ibanez's in the same price range.
But there's two sides to that; I feel Epi's use better materials & have better construction than Ibanez's in the same price range.
T
TheArchitect
Guest
Re: Hollows: Artcore, Dot, ???
I had a Sheraton but I didn't care for the string spacing. Actually, I have had 2. The first destroyed in a fire in 2000. Seemed vary narrow at the bridge and the over all feel was not to my liking. I worked with it until I came across my Yamaha SA2200 which was a perfect fit for me from top to bottom.
I've tried hard to love the Art Core's. It seems like to me that for what I want out of the guitar, semi hollows are just like acoustics in that I have to pony up to really get what what I need in an instrument. The lower end models end up lacking in 1 or mare areas that ultimately I can't live with
I had a Sheraton but I didn't care for the string spacing. Actually, I have had 2. The first destroyed in a fire in 2000. Seemed vary narrow at the bridge and the over all feel was not to my liking. I worked with it until I came across my Yamaha SA2200 which was a perfect fit for me from top to bottom.
I've tried hard to love the Art Core's. It seems like to me that for what I want out of the guitar, semi hollows are just like acoustics in that I have to pony up to really get what what I need in an instrument. The lower end models end up lacking in 1 or mare areas that ultimately I can't live with
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wanmei1
New member
Re: Hollows: Artcore, Dot, ???
I've never owned one but the QC is outstanding.
And so is the AES 1500 at around $1650...not a 335 design but they are just beautiful to play.
Basically I think you must be prepared to invest time and money in Epi Dot's and Artcores. They do need a fair bit of work to bring them up to scratch but it's surprising just how much they can be improved.
Incidentally I like your analogy re acoustics and hollow/ semi hollows, I take it you couldn't live with the Yamaha FG series.
One of these days I'll buy a used pearl white AES1500.
Yamaha AES 1500
The Yamaha SA2200 is superb.
I've never owned one but the QC is outstanding.
And so is the AES 1500 at around $1650...not a 335 design but they are just beautiful to play.
Basically I think you must be prepared to invest time and money in Epi Dot's and Artcores. They do need a fair bit of work to bring them up to scratch but it's surprising just how much they can be improved.
Incidentally I like your analogy re acoustics and hollow/ semi hollows, I take it you couldn't live with the Yamaha FG series.
One of these days I'll buy a used pearl white AES1500.
Yamaha AES 1500
ImmortalSix
John Mayer's Mankini
Re: Hollows: Artcore, Dot, ???
I wrote a long post and lost it, but basically:
Epiphone has a consistently better feel than Ibanez in my opinion -- has "it"
Epiphone quality is widely variable --- play a few before you judge the brand
Ibanez offers better fit and finish than Epiphone at equal price
I wrote a long post and lost it, but basically:
Epiphone has a consistently better feel than Ibanez in my opinion -- has "it"
Epiphone quality is widely variable --- play a few before you judge the brand
Ibanez offers better fit and finish than Epiphone at equal price
guitfiddle
firstlessonologist
Re: Hollows: Artcore, Dot, ???
I think bang for the buck goes to the Artcores, but if you go for a used ArtSTAR, you get real Super 58 Alnico pickups and not the ceramic Custom 58s they put in now. You also get better woods, and electronics.
Here's one on the Bay going for $450.
I think bang for the buck goes to the Artcores, but if you go for a used ArtSTAR, you get real Super 58 Alnico pickups and not the ceramic Custom 58s they put in now. You also get better woods, and electronics.
Here's one on the Bay going for $450.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Hollows: Artcore, Dot, ???
+1. You really have to put a few upgrades into any mid-priced import, starting with the PU's. But once you do that, with a good set up, you have something decent, and you don't have to take out a loan for it.
As far as mahogany vs maple Dots, all it means to me is that I'll to use warmer PU's or magnets in the maple, nothing I'd lose sleep over. If you don't tweak your electronics it could be an issue. 335's seem to be a relatively warm design in a variety of woods.
Seems like Gibson & Epiphone change neck sizes at random in most of their models, so my approach is that I want to be flexible as a player, so I'll take any neck regardless and get used to it. If you're rigid in your neck requirements, then check them out first.
Epiphone did cut a few too many corners with their Dot Studios. How much could little dot inlays have cost them? And those finishes are kind of cheesy. There's guitars much cheaper that have inlays & gloss finishes. Had to be a better way to do it. Like using P-90's instead of HB's (that would have been a very interesting change and excited part of the market). Give us a Studio that doesn't look like it's only halfway thru the assembly line
+1. You really have to put a few upgrades into any mid-priced import, starting with the PU's. But once you do that, with a good set up, you have something decent, and you don't have to take out a loan for it.
As far as mahogany vs maple Dots, all it means to me is that I'll to use warmer PU's or magnets in the maple, nothing I'd lose sleep over. If you don't tweak your electronics it could be an issue. 335's seem to be a relatively warm design in a variety of woods.
Seems like Gibson & Epiphone change neck sizes at random in most of their models, so my approach is that I want to be flexible as a player, so I'll take any neck regardless and get used to it. If you're rigid in your neck requirements, then check them out first.
Epiphone did cut a few too many corners with their Dot Studios. How much could little dot inlays have cost them? And those finishes are kind of cheesy. There's guitars much cheaper that have inlays & gloss finishes. Had to be a better way to do it. Like using P-90's instead of HB's (that would have been a very interesting change and excited part of the market). Give us a Studio that doesn't look like it's only halfway thru the assembly line
SlowGroove
New member
Re: Hollows: Artcore, Dot, ???
I tried/tested BOTH the Epi Dot, and various Artcores.
If i had to spend MY hard earned money on a semi, it would go towards an Artcore !
James
I tried/tested BOTH the Epi Dot, and various Artcores.
If i had to spend MY hard earned money on a semi, it would go towards an Artcore !
James
Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
Re: Hollows: Artcore, Dot, ???
A used epi Sheraton is a killer axe at usually 4 bills!
An Epi Dot Studio can be amazing for 2-3; You may need to play a number to find a good one, but worth the hunt
There are some monster Hamers out there (Monaco - used)
And I've played a few excellent Artcores - again, you'll need to play more than say Sheratons, but less than dot studios.
And the basic epi dot is generally pretty good.
Lot's of 335 goodness out there - but more variables on the semi-hollow in construction than the solid body. Thus more variability, and more need to actually play one.
A used epi Sheraton is a killer axe at usually 4 bills!
An Epi Dot Studio can be amazing for 2-3; You may need to play a number to find a good one, but worth the hunt
There are some monster Hamers out there (Monaco - used)
And I've played a few excellent Artcores - again, you'll need to play more than say Sheratons, but less than dot studios.
And the basic epi dot is generally pretty good.
Lot's of 335 goodness out there - but more variables on the semi-hollow in construction than the solid body. Thus more variability, and more need to actually play one.
vinterland
New member
Re: Hollows: Artcore, Dot, ???
Eastman makes a killer 335 esque style guitar.
Eastman makes a killer 335 esque style guitar.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Hollows: Artcore, Dot, ???
I've gotten two Dot Deluxes on eBay, excellent condition, one for $249, the other for $215. Flame top & gold hardware. Can't beat it. Why get a Studio?
I've gotten two Dot Deluxes on eBay, excellent condition, one for $249, the other for $215. Flame top & gold hardware. Can't beat it. Why get a Studio?
MikeS
Bengalsologist
Re: Hollows: Artcore, Dot, ???
I hear you, blueman, on the dot studio. I've been wanting a semi-hollow for sometime, so I played a few at the local guitar center. The dot studio feels too much like the Gibson faded finish, and IMO feels cheaper than even the thickest of poly finishes. I will never understand how people like the finish... it just isn't for me. There was even something not quite right about the stripped down controls. To me it felt like an incomplete instrument.
The Ibanez Artcores weren't bad guitars, but left quite a bit to be desired. None of them were overly special, and felt like most Ibanez guitars do in my hands, and that is cold and uninspiring. I'll give them consistency... they all played well but shared the uninspiring feel and tone.
I've played several Epiphone Dots over the last year. The last trip to GC didn't yield any spectacular ones. Both felt a little generic. I played a black one in Columbus a couple months back that was very lively, and had I been in a position to buy it I likely would have. Every time I'm in a guitar store I look at the Dots, as I feel for under 5 bills there aren't any better new 335 copies. The biggest drawback is that I hadn't noticed great consistency in the tone of the Dots, though I'm sure the age of the strings played a role in that, too, and we all know how resistant GC is towards changing strings on guitars, even if it means losing a sale.
I hear you, blueman, on the dot studio. I've been wanting a semi-hollow for sometime, so I played a few at the local guitar center. The dot studio feels too much like the Gibson faded finish, and IMO feels cheaper than even the thickest of poly finishes. I will never understand how people like the finish... it just isn't for me. There was even something not quite right about the stripped down controls. To me it felt like an incomplete instrument.
The Ibanez Artcores weren't bad guitars, but left quite a bit to be desired. None of them were overly special, and felt like most Ibanez guitars do in my hands, and that is cold and uninspiring. I'll give them consistency... they all played well but shared the uninspiring feel and tone.
I've played several Epiphone Dots over the last year. The last trip to GC didn't yield any spectacular ones. Both felt a little generic. I played a black one in Columbus a couple months back that was very lively, and had I been in a position to buy it I likely would have. Every time I'm in a guitar store I look at the Dots, as I feel for under 5 bills there aren't any better new 335 copies. The biggest drawback is that I hadn't noticed great consistency in the tone of the Dots, though I'm sure the age of the strings played a role in that, too, and we all know how resistant GC is towards changing strings on guitars, even if it means losing a sale.