Hot Rails neck too dark/muddy

[Rydock]

I have an ESP guitar with a hot rails neck and a custom (TB-5) in the bridge. The custom is perfectly balanced sounding. Good amount of mids and highs and tight bass. I use it for riffing and leads. The hot rails on the other hand is very dark for my tastes. Cleans sound decent with it but when I try to use any amount of gain with it, it becomes a muddy mess. I play prog-rock/metal and need a neck pickup that can handle shred.

I've been thinking that a cool rails might be a better fit for me, but wanted to try some other solutions before I spend money swapping things out potentially not liking it. I then saw this link (http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/tips-and-tricks/mod-squad-muddy-sounding-neck-pickup/) about adding a cap to the hot wire on your neck pickup to attenuate some low end. Would this help the high end of a hot rails neck to come through better? If not, I'd rather not waste my time.

Anybody have any other solutions or mods I can do? I'm looking for a Petrucci-esque neck sound. I like the idea of having a duncan rail pickup in the neck but I'm open to other suggestions.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Hot Rails neck too dark/muddy

Cool rails, or perhaps the stack version of the ssl6 (the STK6 I think). The single coil nature somewhat cuts through the hum cancelling design which might give more clarity.

 

[Rydock]

Re: Hot Rails neck too dark/muddy

Yeah I've been also taking a look at some of the stack pickups. Specifically the STK-S7 and STK-S6. The descriptions are kind of confusion me. It says that the "vintage hot stack plus" is slightly hotter than the "custom stack plus". The vintage is listed under medium output whereas the custom is listed under high output. The custom even has a higher DC resistance than the vintage. Is this just an error?

Either way, I have no experience whatsoever with stacked coils so I wouldn't know what to look for. Those two seem to be useful for me though.

 

[dominus]

Re: Hot Rails neck too dark/muddy

First, try wiring the Hot Rails in parallel. That will brighten it up some.

Second, DC Resistance just states how much wire is on the bobbin. It's not always an accurate indicator of output.

 

[Rydock]

Re: Hot Rails neck too dark/muddy

First, try wiring the Hot Rails in parallel. That will brighten it up some.

Second, DC Resistance just states how much wire is on the bobbin. It's not always an accurate indicator of output.

Not unless both pickups are using the same wire gauge. Then the DC resistance is supposed to be a good indication.

Also, I'll check out wiring in parallel. Thanks

 

[AlexR]

Re: Hot Rails neck too dark/muddy

^there are other elements of winding even with the same wire which will alter output, or perceived output. Plus wire gauge varies between pickups, which alters K readings by about 20% even with the same turns.

I remember seeing a youtube vid of a guy doing some nice weedly weedly shred stuff on a neck mounted ssl6....seemed like just the thing you were after.

Vintage hot would be on the hotter side of vintage......which is like low to medium output. The 'Custom' range in Duncan (both singlecoil and humbucker) is a medium to hot wind with elements of both.

 

[Rydock]

Re: Hot Rails neck too dark/muddy

^there are other elements of winding even with the same wire which will alter output, or perceived output. Plus wire gauge varies between pickups, which alters K readings by about 20% even with the same turns.

I remember seeing a youtube vid of a guy doing some nice weedly weedly shred stuff on a neck mounted ssl6....seemed like just the thing you were after.

Vintage hot would be on the hotter side of vintage......which is like low to medium output. The 'Custom' range in Duncan (both singlecoil and humbucker) is a medium to hot wind with elements of both.

I just say a clip on youtube of somebody doing weedly stuff on a STK-S7 in the neck and it did sound really good. I'm just wondering if these stacks would retain clarity when using them through a decent amount of gain. The most gain I find myself using is around 9:30 on my EVH, boosted with an OD808. Clean tone on my neck are really important too.

 

[Rydock]

Re: Hot Rails neck too dark/muddy

What do you guys know about the .047 cap mod though? Would that help bring out more high end from my neck?

 

[GregJr]

Re: Hot Rails neck too dark/muddy

I don't think it would "bring out more high end", it would rather roll of the lows.
I also have a HR neck which i find muddy. Did the mod (fast and cheap), slight improvement but not as i would like.

 

[Rydock]

Re: Hot Rails neck too dark/muddy

I don't think it would "bring out more high end", it would rather roll of the lows.
I also have a HR neck which i find muddy. Did the mod (fast and cheap), slight improvement but not as i would like.

Yeah I know it's supposed to attenuate some the lows, but I'm just wondering by doing this mod if there is a decent sounding high-end buried under all of that mud.

 

[allstarrme]

Re: Hot Rails neck too dark/muddy

Try wiring in parallel or adding a 1 meg volume pot if it's got its own volume.

After that I would look at the air norton S or tone zone S for replacements, maybe a JB jr.

 

[LesStrat]

Re: Hot Rails neck too dark/muddy

IDK if the Cool Rails would solve the stated problem, although I LOVE that pickup. I had one in the middle position of LesStrat.

 

[Rydock]

Re: Hot Rails neck too dark/muddy

I mean I do enjoy how smooth the hot rails is under gain. It also cleans up really well. It just sounds like the pickup is all bass and mush when it comes to the EQ curve. I guess I'm just spoiled by how good my 59 sounds in the neck of my LP. I guess I'd want something with a slightly paf-ish tone with the smooth attack and sustain as something more modern in a single coil sized pickup. I'll probably give the "tone cap mod" a try first.

The guide says to use a 0.047uf cap. What would happen if I used something of a different value (i.e. 0.022uf)?

 

[JHN]

Re: Hot Rails neck too dark/muddy

Smaller value gets less lows.That means with a 0.022uf you will have even less lows than 0.047uf.That said,the roll off in the high frequencies will not change with the cap so DEFINITELY try the parallel wiring too.Both of these cost practically nothing and one of them might be good for you.Since the hotrails neck is indeed hot and thick sounding,the parallel wiring doesn't sound weak or thin.I have a hotrails neck model in a Steinberger Gr4.It sounds good to my ears in parallel but completely different than in series.Try it anyway and you'll be the judge.

 

[Rydock]

Re: Hot Rails neck too dark/muddy

So I ended up doing the hot wire mod today.

Does this look alright?