How do I find the out put level for the Saturday night special pick up?

[cragginshred]

The SD site does not list it. Thanks!

 

[Lewguitar]

The most you can do is compare the DCR of the SNS pickup to the DCR of a pickup you're familiar with. They are basically a PAF style pickup with the output of Gibson humbuckers from the late 50's and into the 60's.

That would be true for most of Duncan's PAF style pickups.

 

[jeremy]

the neck pup is kinda like a t-top with a4 magnet but around 7.8k, the bridge is hotter like 9.5k or something like that

 

[Gtrjunior]

The Dimarzio site lists output levels of their pickups as well as DCR numbers.
It would be great if Duncan did something similar.

 

[jeremy]

duncan did post their mv output numbers before but i dont know how accurate they were, some were surprising. even if they were 100% accurate, they wouldnt be comparable to the dimarzio numbers unless both companies used the same exact process. its not an easy thing to measure but it would be nice info to have

 

[Lewguitar]

duncan did post their mv output numbers before but i dont know how accurate they were, some were surprising. even if they were 100% accurate, they wouldnt be comparable to the dimarzio numbers unless both companies used the same exact process. its not an easy thing to measure but it would be nice info to have

Wouldn't the output vary depending on things like the thickness of the strings, how close to the strings the pickup is and how hard you pick or excite the string?

If you picked hard would that result in a higher millivolt reading?

 

[jeremy]

right, and there are a ton of other variables as well. you basically need a machine setup so it hits the string exactly the same way every time with the pup in exactly the same position along with a control signal of some kind as reference. youll never get a number that corresponds to the actual output you would get but youd get a number that you could compare between duncan models.

 

[cragginshred]

I got thru the Duncan today and they said 9.75 with a 30% variance. This is close to a medium op PAF by most standards which is what I am hearing. They pair amazingly well with my Plexi type amp!

 

[Mincer]

SD has never officially released output data on their pickups, although, unofficially, they released the results of a controlled test on this forum. It is hard to do a test like that, unless you invent some sort of picking machine to pick consistently on the same guitar with many different pickups. But, even then, this doesn't represent real-world use (no one picks like a machine does). So, we can say, that this pickup has more output than that pickup, which only works if you are familiar with the 2 pickups being compared.

 

[jeremy]

9.75k is like stupid high for a paf. most were 7.5k to 8.8k and even thats being fairly generous. dont know if ive heard of one being over 9k.

that aside, its a very cool pup set for sure

 

[cragginshred]

jeremy coupled with the not so often used alnico 4 and the particular wind makes this puppy special. I've experienced drawbacks with 'Vintage' out put pups and high output too, so I would say these are perfec for those muscular pure rock and classic metal tones I paly!!!

I have a like my Suhr Thornbucker but next to the SNS it's weak. I can roll the volume back and get those same tones with the Duncan too.

 

[AlexR]

Output is too variable as a metric......as in there are too many ways to measure it, plus the possible protocols surrounding the test are widespread and not possible to duplicate.
It has become such a problematic area that everyone has settled on a common ,easily transferable between brands, metric.....but one that has little if anything to do with actual signal...DCR.

 

[jeremy]

dcr and inductance are easily measurable, mv output isnt but it can still be a useful metric, as shown by dimarzio. its only useful for comparing dimarzios to dimarzios but that in and of itself is useful

 

[Clint 55]

They're slightly hotter 'PAF's. Basically sound like an overwound Jazz set with A4s to me. The neck isn't overwound enough to change the tone really at all from ur usual vintage neck bucker which has all the high end detail and chime. But the bridge is overwound to the point to where it's starting to get slightly middy.

 

[Gtrjunior]

dcr and inductance are easily measurable, mv output isnt but it can still be a useful metric, as shown by dimarzio. its only useful for comparing dimarzios to dimarzios but that in and of itself is useful

Yes, if for no other reason as to have an idea of how hot a pickup is.
I’d love for Duncan to come up with a way to measure it like Dimarzio.
Of course, as already discussed, there would need to be a way to establish some sort of baseline and use that as the reference.

 

[Lewguitar]

9.75k is like stupid high for a paf. most were 7.5k to 8.8k and even thats being fairly generous. dont know if ive heard of one being over 9k.

that aside, its a very cool pup set for sure

Seth Lover specified 5000 turns of 42 ga. copper on each coil of a 50's PAF and if you do that you get a pickup that reads pretty low. Well under 8K.

I don't remember the number but it's 7.8k or less.

It seems to me that Seymour winds his "PAF" pickups so the neck pickup is pretty close to Seth Lover's original specs but the bridge pickup is wound quite a bit hotter.

The Saturday Night Special set , with a 9.75K bridge pickup is "stupid high" for a PAF. But apparently it sounds great, so there it is.

 

[Mincer]

The only time tests were done were about 5-6 years ago. I found this list from the thread I remember. I don't know how scientific this was but I think they really worked hard to provide consistent picking. At least it gives you a good idea when comparing different pickups. From what I remember, this was the only time this info was published. From the original post:

Good afternoon forum friends, as many of you know we are deep in the midst of a website design (and yes for those of you rolling your eyes, it has been an extraordinarily long journey as we completely re-design, record and sample our many, many pickups). I wanted to give you guys a peak at some upcoming mV data. You all know the limitations of using DC resistance as an indicator of output, a much better indicator is mV. We've devised a precise and repeatable method for testing pickup output which we believe corresponds closely to actual playing. We start with a Telecaster that has an oversized cavity routed to allow easy pickup installation. The guitar is carefully tuned to standard tuning (consistent tuning is important). We add a custom machined, mechanical, spring loaded strum arm with a tempered, .004” thick spring steel pick. We install the pickup, setting the distance from the top of the pickup to the string to .093” +/- .010” (consistent set-up is essential). We then load and release the strum arm, capturing the result on a digital storage oscilloscope. We perform this process 5 times for a 3 pickup sample lot and average the results. This is repeated for every model we make.

I'm happy to be able to share some of this data with you today. I appreciate you guys being cool and patient with us as we work to give you all the tools you could ever want to make the best selection.

SH-55n Seth Lover Model Nkl 399
SH-55b Seth Lover Model Nkl 399
SH-2n Jazz Model 501
SH-2b Jazz Model 571
SH-3 Stag Mag 389
SH-4 JB Model 737
SH-5 Duncan Custom 784
7Str Distortion Brg, Amt, Soapbar 792
8Str Distortion Brg, Amt, Soapbar 792
SH-6b Duncan Distortion 792
7Str Distortion Brg Pmt 792
8Str Distortion Brg Pmt 792
7Str Distortion Nk,Amt, Soapbar 732
8Str Distortion Nk,Amt, Soapbar 732
SH-6n Duncan Distortion 732
7Str Distortion Nk,Pmt 732
8Str Distortion Nk,Pmt 732
SH-8SGn Synyster Gates,&Chr,Neck 491
SH-8SGb Synyster Gates,&Chr,Brdg 813
SH-8n Invader 491
7Str Invader Nk, Pmt 491
8Str Invader Nk, Pmt 491
7Str Invader Brg, Amt, Soapbar 813
8Str Invader Brg, Amt, Soapbar 813
SH-8b Invader 813
7Str Invader Brg, Pmt 813
8Str Invader Brg, Pmt 813
SM-2n Custom Mini-Humbkr 216
SM-2b Custom Mini-Humbkr 327
SM-3n Seymourized Mini-Humbkr 330
SM-3b Seymourized Mini-Humbkr 354
SH-PG1n Pearly Gates 513
SH-PG1b Pearly Gates 543
SH-10n Full Shred 709
SH-10b Full Shred 724
SH-11 Custom Custom 574
PA-TB1b Original Parallel Axis 749
PA-TB1n Original Parallel Axis 515
PA-TB2b Distortion Parallel Axis 741
PA-STK1n Parallel Axis Stack 291
PA-TB3b Blues Saraceno Model 694
SH-12 Screamin' Demon 500
SH-13 Dimebucker 1160
SH-14 Custom 5 Black 646
SH-15 Alternative 8 Black 761
SH-16 59/Custom Hybrid, 625
SH-18b Whole Lotta HB bridge 440
SH-18n Whole Lotta HB Neck 382
Black Winter, HB Neck 744
Black Winter, HB Bridge 763
7Str Black Winter, HB Neck 744
7Str Black Winter, HB Bridge 763
8Str Black Winter, HB Neck 744
8Str Black Winter, HB Bridge 763
6Str Pegasus Brg. 555
7Str Pegasus Brg, Amt, Soapbar 555
8Str Pegasus Brg, Amt, Soapbar 555
7Str Pegasus Brg, Pmt 555
8Str Pegasus Brg, Pmt 555
6Str Nazgûl Brg, Amt, Soapbar 666
7Str Nazgûl Brg, Amt, Soapbar 666
8Str Nazgûl Brg, Amt, Soapbar 666
7Str Nazgûl Brg, Pmt 666
8Str Nazgûl Brg, Pmt 666
6Str Sentient Neck, Amt, Soapbar 499
7Str Sentient Neck, Amt, Soapbar 499
8Str Sentient Neck, Amt, Soapbar 499
7Str Sentient Neck, Pmt 499
8Str Sentient Neck, Pmt 499
Jason Becker - bridge Black 582
TB-59 '59 Trembucker 593
TB-4 JB Trembucker 737
TB-5 Duncan Custom Trembkr 784
TB-6 Duncan Distortion Trmbkr 792
TB-8SGb Synyster Gates,&Chr,Brdg 813
TB-PG1b Pearly Gates Trembkr 543
TB-APH1B Alnc II Trembucker 499
TB-10 Full Shred Trembucker 724
TB-11 Custom Custom Trembkr 574
TB-12 Screamin' Demon Trembkr 500
TB-14 Custom 5 Trembkr Black 646
TB-15 Alternative 8 Trembkr Black 651
TB-16 59/Custom Hybrid, 625
Black Winter, TB Bridge 763
Pegasus Trembucker, Bridge 555
Nazgul Trembucker, Bridge 666
Jason Becker - TB bridge Black 582
APH-1n Alnc II Pro Humbuckr 452
APH-1b Alnc II Pro Humbuckr 499
APH-2n Slash Alnc II Pro HB 475
APH-2b Slash Alnc II Pro HB 524
LW-CH2n,LiveWire II,Classic,HB 534
LW-CH2b,LiveWire II,Classic,HB 936
LW-Must LiveWire Dave Mustaine,n 1080
LW-Must LiveWire Dave Mustaine,b 1368
AHB-1n Blackouts, Neck 1283
AHB-1b Blackouts, Bridge 1598
AHB-1n Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 1, Nk 1283
AHB-1b Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 1, Br 1598
AHB-1n Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 2, Nk 1283
AHB-1b Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 2, Br 1598
AHB-2b Blackouts Metal HB 3648
AHB-1n Blackouts, 8strg, Neck 1283
AHB-1b Blackouts, 8strg, Bridge 1598
AHB-3n MickT Blackouts HB Neck Bk 1079
AHB-3b MickT Blackouts HB Bridge Bk 1419
AHB-3n Mick T Blackouts 7-Str Ph 1 1079
AHB-3b Mick T Blackouts 7-Str Ph 1 1419
AHB-3n Mick T Blackouts 7Str Ph 2 1079
AHB-3b Mick T Blackouts 7Str Ph 2 1419
AHB-10n Blackouts Coil Pack Nk 1829
AHB-10b Blackouts Coil Pack Brg 1870
AHB-11n Gus G Fire Backout Coil Pack Nk 1725
AHB-11b Gus G Fire Backout Coil Pack Brg 1784
SH-1n '59 Model 7-Strg 572
SH-1b '59 Model 7-Strg 593
SH-2n Jazz Model 7-Strg 501
SH-4 JB Model 7-Strg 737
SH-5 Duncan Custom 7-Strg 784
SH-10n Full Shred Neck 7-Str 709
SH-10b Full Shred Brg 7-Str 958
SH-14 Custom 5 7-Str 646

 

[PicoRiveraTele]

I've never understood the desire for output values, for a lot of reasons. It depends on how hard you strum, why not modulate your strumming to suit the situations? How about raising and lower the pickups to taste? A given pickup will always produce less output in the bridge than if it were installed in the neck, so the numbers comparing neck and bridge would apples and oranges. A person can always use a light amount of compression to close of volume differences between pickups. When running into a dirty amp, the volume tends to be the same anyway, and the output just determine how hard the amp will clip at a given amount of gain.

For the most part, the output could be inferred from the inductance and the magnet. We know the magnet type, if the pickup makers were to supply the inductance, you could just make an educated guess that would be just as accurate, if not more so, than some arbitrary milivoltage regime.

 

[Erlend_G]

^^ Well,

I guess the biggest problem is if the pickup isn't "hot enough" to give you sufficient distortion/gain. You could always use a "boost" pedal for this, but...

...also it's important to match the output between different pickups in the same guitar. To your liking, of course.

my thoughts

-E

 

[Artie]

Funny that ALL the Nazgul's read 666.