How do phat cats go when using the "in between" sound?

[Chickenwings]

The reason im asking is because i'm looking at installing a pair of phat cats in my 175. I'm a bit tired of the fat, cushy kenny burrell tone (ive been using humbuckers) and am looking to make the guitar sound more present, harmonically rich and "acousticy". The idea of a fat single coil with a2 magnets is extremely appealing to me right now.
I use the "in between" position a lot when i have 2 humbuckers. I believe that a pair of phats cats are hum cancelling when used together - some people say (according to a google search) that this results in a thinner sound. Is this true, or should i just get a stock pair and enjoy them?
If the "in between" sound is thin and reedy, do i need to order a non rwr/rp pair from the custom shop?
The last axe i had with a pair of actual p90's was a 1966 epiphone casino, and from memory it sounded pretty goon in the "in between" position, but it was long time ago and i didn't often use that sound back then. I believe that pair were rw/rp.
Anyways...for those of you with a pair of phat cats: how do you like the "in between" sound?

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: How do phat cats go when using the "in between" sound?

I like the Phatcats but I like good humbuckers or Strat style single coils more. I think if it was me I'd try other humbuckers before changing to Phatcats or P90's.

I've never felt that P90's sounded more present or acousticy or fatter than a good set of humbuckers.

Humbuckers have a stronger signal than P90's, in my experience.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: How do phat cats go when using the "in between" sound?

i like real p90's too. ive never tried phatties. I did have a pair of pete biltof vintage vibe p90/hum sized things in my casino before i installed the real p90s, but they sounded a bit wimpy. Almost like strat pickups - which is fine in a strat, but not so good in a thinline.

...is there any way i can install dogears without drilling extra holes in my axe?

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: How do phat cats go when using the "in between" sound?

i like real p90's too. ive never tried phatties. I did have a pair of pete biltof vintage vibe p90/hum sized things in my casino before i installed the real p90s, but they sounded a bit wimpy. Almost like strat pickups - which is fine in a strat, but not so good in a thinline.

...is there any way i can install dogears without drilling extra holes in my axe?

I would have to say no. You'd have to increase the width of the rout of each pickup and then install two screws in each pickup cover that would show if you wanted to go back to humbuckers.

If you're that set on it, maybe you should try some Phatcats. They're the least invasive way to try some P90's in your guitar.

They do come with a 21 day no questions asked return policy. Can't beat that. You could try them and then return them if you don't like them.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: How do phat cats go when using the "in between" sound?

21 days...then if they are awesome i could put in a pair of p90 ants maybe....

 

[blueman335]

Re: How do phat cats go when using the "in between" sound?

I've gotten very fond of A2's in PAF's, but those magnets do not sound the same in P-90's. I've got as much experience with Phat Cats as anyone here (I have 9 of them) and the A2's were a huge letdown. The necks are extremely dark in warm woods, semi-hollows, and hollows, almost no treble at all. From posts here, the neck models seem to do better in bright woods. Zhang said they're wound too hot and took about 1K of turns off of his neck PC to get some treble in it. Considering that most of the intended targets of Phat Cats are Gibson-design guitars, it's a questionable choice of magnet.

The bridge has a different problem, to quote Zhang: 'Weak and thin.' It's overpowered by the neck Phat Cat. Again, the wrong magnet. Too puny. I took all 18 A2's out of my Phat Cats and gave them away to forum members. I don't know why they didn't go with A5's like most other P-90's, or A4's like Fralin; at least the neck would have some life to it. I use a variety of magnet combinations in mine; if I had to keep the stock magnets in, I wouldn't own any.

Two other shortcomings of Phat Cats: 1) there are no screws to hold the baseplate to the coils (like just about every other P-90 in the world), so the cover holds the whole thing together, and 2) they don't have a separate ground wire, which is common these days to reduce noise. The really need to be revamped; looks like they were rushed and slapped together. The competition seems to have put more thought into it.

I don't think you'll get the sounds you're looking for with Phat Cats. There are plenty of other HB-sized P-90's available, and I'd recommend you look at them before making a decision.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: How do phat cats go when using the "in between" sound?

lol. i was waiting for you to tell me how you dont like a2's in phatcats and that they are too dark rick!

Actually i don't mind that that dont sound the same as p90's - i just want a good sound. It doesn't have to be authentic or anything. But its interesting that you say the neck is too powerful for the bridge...i definitely don't want that.

Perhaps i should man up and just get a pair of dogears and drill!
Fralin make a pair that have a 10% underwound neck...
or perhaps a pair of ants?

 

[Artie]

Re: How do phat cats go when using the "in between" sound?

Perhaps i should man up and just get a pair of dogears and drill!

Dogears and Phatcats! Welcome to the kennel. :nervous:

 

[scorch]

Re: How do phat cats go when using the "in between" sound?

Everyones ears work differently. I have a Phat Cat set in a chambered strat with a QP between. Best sounding strat I've ever had. I love the neck pickup. The bridge pickup is a little thin but I compensate by switching it in series with the middle QP. Massive rawk tone. I may fool with the magnet in the bridge but I'm leaving the neck PU alone.

 

[blueman335]

Re: How do phat cats go when using the "in between" sound?

Everyones ears work differently. I have a Phat Cat set in a chambered strat with a QP between. Best sounding strat I've ever had. I love the neck pickup. The bridge pickup is a little thin but I compensate by switching it in series with the middle QP. Massive rawk tone. I may fool with the magnet in the bridge but I'm leaving the neck PU alone.

+1. And that's exactly where Phat Cats can shine. But most guys buying them want to put them in models that used to have P-90's in the 1950's, like LP's, SG's, and hollowbodies, and that's where Phat Cats all too often come up short.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: How do phat cats go when using the "in between" sound?

well i spent today down in the city trying sone p90 equipped axes...a 330, a 225 and a 125. I compared them with my 175 and a couple other axes including a byrdland and a couple of 137s.
The good news: my axe is awesome. The bad news: i really really dig p90s. I think ill just go the whole hog and install a nice pair of dogears.

 

[tubecrunch]

Re: How do phat cats go when using the "in between" sound?

I've had phat cats and prails. Prails were much closer to p90's, and I enjoy the wiring options. And you are correct, p90's rule.

 

[blueman335]

Re: How do phat cats go when using the "in between" sound?

I've had phat cats and prails. Prails were much closer to p90's, and I enjoy the wiring options. And you are correct, p90's rule.

That's probably because of those infernal A2's in Phat Cats. They are P-90's, and actually sound like them with different magnets. .

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: How do phat cats go when using the "in between" sound?

The P-Rail is an excellent suggestion for great P-90 tone. Plus, like was said, it gives you three other options as well...Rail, Series humbucker, or parallel humbucker...all in one pup.

An option to the Phat Cat would be a GFS Mean 90, a really great sounding P-90 in a humbucker shell...no need to drill any holes in your top. Plus, it has a screwed-on baseplate so it is easy to change mags if so desired.

I'm a real P-90 lover, and I also love those P-Rails and Mean 90s.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: How do phat cats go when using the "in between" sound?

One other thing...

The Mean 90s are less than $35.

 

[blueman335]

Re: How do phat cats go when using the "in between" sound?

An option to the Phat Cat would be a GFS Mean 90, a really great sounding P-90 in a humbucker shell...no need to drill any holes in your top. Plus, it has a screwed-on baseplate so it is easy to change mags if so desired.

+1. Mean 90's are better-designed (third ground wire & base plate screws), and better-sounding than Phat Cats (A5's instead of A2's). Duncan needs to catch up.

 

[dystrust]

Re: How do phat cats go when using the "in between" sound?

I have a set of Phat Cats in my SG Standard and I like them quite a bit. I have them wired 50s style with 500K pots all-around and .015(neck)/.022(bridge) orange drops. The only minor gripe I have (I agree with Blueman here) is that the neck is a bit loud compared to the bridge. I had to lower the neck pickup quite a ways to get it to balance which may have also helped with the boominess. No issues with the bridge.