How hot is the P-rails neck? What goes well with it?

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matt239

New member
How hot is the P-rails neck?
If I was to use a regular humbucker in the bridge, what would match well?
Would a 498t keep up? Or would a SH14 Custom5 work better?
What would be a good noiseless middle pickup?
Stk-S4? S7? S6? S9? Stk-s2? Other?

If I understand correctly the neck P-rails is RWRP such that bridge and neck rails together, or bridge and neck p-90s together will be hum canceling.
If one were to use two "neck" P-rails at neck and bridge, you could still get hum canceling with bridge P-90/neck rail, and bridge rail/neck P-90 correct?
Would this be able to be reasonably well balanced between neck and bridge?
Or do we think it's necessary to use the hotter bridge model?
How hot is the P-rails "bridge" model relative to some other humbuckers?

Strat style HSH.
 
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Well, the neck P-Rails in series is pretty hot, and will keep up with pretty much any bridge pickup out there. However, the key to the P-Rails is using the different combinations of those coils. The Rail or the P90 isn't super hot by themselves, and yet those are probably the 'favorites' of the sounds you have available. Both coils in parallel is also a great sound, but not really hot, so you sort of give up balanced volume when you choose the P-Rails.
 
Thanks. From what clips/videos I've heard, I really love the tone of the rail and the p-90, in the P-rails.
And I'm really pleased with the neck P-rails humbucker sound.
I'm considering not using a "bridge" P-rails in the bridge. The rail and p-90 are perfect, but the bridge P-rails humbucker is a bit midrangey for me.
To be clear, it's a GORGEOUS humbucker sound! But my go-to bridge humbucker sound is a little flatter and darker, like a 498t.
I also like Custom 5. So I just have to decide for the bridge: "bridge" P-rails, "neck" P-rails, 498t, Custom 5, or other.
I like all the Duncan STK Stack Strat pickups a lot, so it's a question of choosing one for the middle that will play well with the neck and bridge.
 
I used to have a prails n/prails n set in a semi-hollow. The normal p rails b was too hot for what I wanted in that guitar. I did change magnets though so the bridge was A8/A5 and the neck was A5/A2. In both cases the stronger magnet on both the rail and p90 coils.

I liked that set up for a while, but that guitar is now seth neck and A2 brobucker bridge.
 
matt239 said:
Thanks. From what clips/videos I've heard, I really love the tone of the rail and the p-90, in the P-rails.
And I'm really pleased with the neck P-rails humbucker sound.
I'm considering not using a "bridge" P-rails in the bridge. The rail and p-90 are perfect, but the bridge P-rails humbucker is a bit midrangey for me.
To be clear, it's a GORGEOUS humbucker sound! But my go-to bridge humbucker sound is a little flatter and darker, like a 498t.
I also like Custom 5. So I just have to decide for the bridge: "bridge" P-rails, "neck" P-rails, 498t, Custom 5, or other.
I like all the Duncan STK Stack Strat pickups a lot, so it's a question of choosing one for the middle that will play well with the neck and bridge.
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The Custom 5 is like the eq opposite of the P-Rails in series. There are virtually no mids there at all. I think many who have P-Rails simply don't use the series setting much. It is there if you need it, but it really isn't the best sound in the pickup.
 
The cooler of the two P Rails is an upper-medium output humbucker in series. It sounds fine in the bridge position, but it's thick in the neck. It needs to be paired with a very hot bridge pickup, so the same amp settings work on both pickups...or you just never orient it in series mode.

As a P90 only, it's a wonderful regular output "vintage" sound that works great in bridge or neck position. The rail pickup is nice too, but only in the neck position. It's very weak in the bridge position.

I don't like it in parallel mode in either position.

I use a set of two cool P Rails, and I normally have them both on P90 mode. I put the bridge one in series occasionally, if I want a warmer sound from the bridge pickup. And I occasionally put the neck one on rail only, when I want a thinner neck sound. In short: 1) neck cool model: P90 only or rail only, and 2) bridge cool model: P90 only or series coils only. I don't use any of the other available P-Rails options. I originally had them in Triple Shots, with all options available. But I realized I only ever used the options I named, and I found the Triple Shots ugly and cumbersome to use. I pulled them, and keep them in a drawer for trying out different wiring options on new pickups. Once I settle on the sounds I like, I wire them to normal switches, and the Triple Shots go back in the drawer until next time.
 
I'd say an STK-S4 for a great, quiet sound, but what do you want out of a middle pickup? Is volume balance more important than tone, or what?
 
Mincer said:
I'd say an STK-S4 for a great, quiet sound, but what do you want out of a middle pickup? Is volume balance more important than tone, or what?
Click to expand...

I like a fairly hot middle pickup. Having the volume roughly match is good.
- I think a lot of folks end up not using their middle, because they choose it for "single coil sound," and then it's really anemic at the same amp settings, compared to the bridge and neck pickups.
I have to admit though, that I also use 2 and 4 positions much more than middle alone.
I'm comfortable with a beefy, not-precisely-strat-like 2 and 4 sound. I find it still always kind of suggests that sound, even if it's hotter and darker.
 
500k pots? ssl6 if you want a single coil. stks6 if you want humcancelling. if you are using 250k pots, the prails neck is going to be pretty dark
 
matt239 said:
I like a fairly hot middle pickup. Having the volume roughly match is good.
- I think a lot of folks end up not using their middle, because they choose it for "single coil sound," and then it's really anemic at the same amp settings, compared to the bridge and neck pickups.
I have to admit though, that I also use 2 and 4 positions much more than middle alone.
I'm comfortable with a beefy, not-precisely-strat-like 2 and 4 sound. I find it still always kind of suggests that sound, even if it's hotter and darker.
Click to expand...

Check out the STK-S6 or the STK-S7. Neither are particularly Stratty, but the volumes should balance, and you would get a usable 2 & 4 sound, if not particularly clucky. Either of these 2 sound great with gain, though.
 
matt239 said:
How hot is the P-rails neck?
If I was to use a regular humbucker in the bridge, what would match well?
Would a 498t keep up? Or would a SH14 Custom5 work better?
What would be a good noiseless middle pickup?
Stk-S4? S7? S6? S9? Stk-s2? Other?

If I understand correctly the neck P-rails is RWRP such that bridge and neck rails together, or bridge and neck p-90s together will be hum canceling.
If one were to use two "neck" P-rails at neck and bridge, you could still get hum canceling with bridge P-90/neck rail, and bridge rail/neck P-90 correct?
Would this be able to be reasonably well balanced between neck and bridge?
Or do we think it's necessary to use the hotter bridge model?
How hot is the P-rails "bridge" model relative to some other humbuckers?

Strat style HSH.
Click to expand...

Just confirming your understandings that the Neck Prail is setup as RWRP, and so yes the "like" coils btw Neck and Bridge will be hum-cancwling when combined, but "unlike" coil# e.g. 1 Rail + 1 P90 will not be hum-canceling.

Also, regarding how hot the Bridge PRail pup is, feedback from members on the forum over the years indicate that In Series is too hot. More than a few have said they found In Parallel mode a great substitute, or alternatively, using a 2nd Neck Prail pup in the Bridge position instead.
 
the series mode of the prails is thick. its taking a p90 and putting it in series with another coil, albeit a smaller coil, but its thick. its not bad but it doesnt sound like a paf at all. parallel sounds better clean than series imo. to me the p90 sound is the best and the others are usable other options
 
jeremy said:
the series mode of the prails is thick. its taking a p90 and putting it in series with another coil, albeit a smaller coil, but its thick. its not bad but it doesnt sound like a paf at all. parallel sounds better clean than series imo. to me the p90 sound is the best and the others are usable other options
Click to expand...

I'm happy with hotter and darker than PAF.
The neck P-rails souds lovely to me in series humbucking mode in every demo I've heard.
I actually quite like the bridge P-rails series humbucker sound too, I'm just trying to decide if it's "my sound." I typically go for something less mid-pushed and more "scooped," like the 498t or Custom 5. - Of course then I don't get the rails or p-90.
I could do a partial split at the bridge, I bet that would work very well with the custom 5.

Basically I'm sure the P-rails bridge will sound great at the bridge, but I don't know if I can quite coax my typical bridge humbucker sound out of it.
Maybe I could just roll back the volume and tone controls a bit, to look for that sound when I need it.
 
In terms of just balancing the output, I've found the whole Custom line matches the neck P-Rail. Neck P-Rail series is a good output match for a Custom or Custom 5 in series, again they match when both pickups are wired parallel, and split the P-90 portion of the P-Rail will be just a tiny bit hotter than a Custom is split while the rail coil is just a tiny bit weaker than a split Custom. The bridge P-Rail is a bit weaker than the Custom line on paper, but I find the thick and bassy tone of the P-Rail makes it sound louder than the specification is, so the end result is it feels like it's around the Custom's level of output.

But in terms of EQ, as others have mentioned, the P-Rails are total opposites to the Custom line, at least in series, and really they're kind of opposite to all other Seymour Duncans I've tried. I've not found anything that matches tonally with a P-Rail neck in series, other than the P-Rail bridge, of course. I wish there was a more standard humbucker that had the P-Rails series EQ balance, getting that tone but with a traditional covered look would be a big help in several of my guitars. The P-Rail really is meant for people who mostly want a P-90 tone but some extra options on the side, as opposed to a standard humbucker where you're obviously prioritising the series tone and any split or parallel sounds are the bonus.

So I'd suggest you either use the P-Rails for both bridge and neck, or just give up on making the two positions even and just let the neck P-Rail be its extra-thick self and give the bridge its own, different tone. There's no regular humbucker that matches with the P-Rail neck very well. The 498T or Custom 5 will 'keep up' in terms of the volume, but tonally it'll be a mismatch. That isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Matching with a middle single coil is a bit easier. The SD Hot Stack (that's the one with the big bar, not the rod magnet Hot Stack Plus or the double-rail Hot Rails) matches the P-Rail in output and is tonally a nice match as it is just that little bit thicker and smoother than a regular single coil, though it is hum-cancelling on its own and I can never remember how to get it to also be hum-cancelling with a split humbucker (or P-Rail) as well. The Quarter Pound also blends nicely with the P-Rail, since again it's just got a little bit of extra smoothness and power, and that one isn't hum-cancelling by itself, so you could easily get it to be hum-cancelling with either the P-90 or rail coil of the P-Rail.


edit: don't worry about the control values. You can make each pickup 'see' its own control value by using a 500k pot and then wiring in another resistor to the single coil, so for example the two humbuckers/P-rails will work with the full 500k while the middle single will be getting 250k. Or, with those slightly smoother and thicker middle pickups like the Quarter Pound and Hot Stack (or Vintage Rails, Cool Rails, a Hot Rails wired parallel, etc etc) you can usually get away with just using 500k anyway, they won't get screechy like standard singles.
 
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For the middle, you might also check the Hot Rails neck. It should easily match the output of the P-Rails.
 
Thanks. Yeah I'm just planning on using 500k, I think that will be fine.
Your information that the level of the custom series is a decent match for the P-rails is super useful. Thank you.
In spite of the "opposite" "scooped" eq of the custom 5, I think it has a nice upper mid range attack (a bit "darkened" I guess, but still there) that can give a bit of nice twang. Especially if you lower the coil and raise the pole pieces a bit under the bass strings.
I think it could be a nice difference, but within a usable range vs the P-rails. It's a great pickup.
It's also a good candidate for a "partial split" with a resistor.
I think I can't go far wrong with the bridge P-rails either, so I'm just choosing between two good things.
I think I'm down to the STK S6 or the STK S2 for the middle.
I should make a recording or a video when I get done, but I don't have any of that gear, so I might not post it for 5 years, lol..
 
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If I understand correctly, your STK-S2 Hot Stack should automatically be hum canceling with ONE or the other of the coils on either humbucker.
And of course it's hum-canceling if you have both pickups in humbucker mode.
You could possibly do complex switching to get hum canceling in a whole bunch of combinations, or you could just not worry about it.
I guess the next trixy thing, Seymour Duncan could do with a future version of P-rails is make EACH COIL a hum-canceling stack. Then, assuming you use a stack at the middle position, everything would always be hum-canceling..
That's probably unnecessarily complicated and not that many people would care, but it would be cool. LOL.
 
youd have to split the stack for it to be humcancelling with one coil of the prails but it can be done, not sure which coil it would be off the top of my head
 
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