How much nickel covers affect tone? JB inside

davidrf

davidrf

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Hi there, I have two pairs of JB/Jazz sets, one in a Schecter C1 Classic (nickel covered) and one in a Greg Bennet Avion AV3 (without cover). The lead parts with the Greg Bennet (that is a far inferior guitar than the Schecter) sound noticeably more sparkly and "singing" with both JB and Jazz. The tone is just better in that regard, I wonder how much the covers affect the tone. The Schecter is surely a darker, WAY bigger sounding guitar, but maybe the covers play their part in that? Thanks!
 
The difference with a raw nickel cover is barely audible, with a nickel plated german silver cover it is audible, with a brass cover it's clearly obvious on the first tone. I checked that with a LP with slots for a quick swap and some 59B I have.
 
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Also depends on which "Nickel covers" we talk about. There's good and bad ones, and they can't necessarily be recognized as such visually (except on the screen of a frequency analyzer).

But in the case mentioned here, I'd also check the actual DCR of the volume and tone pots involved.
 
Covers do affect the tone. They roll off some top end and flatten the resonant peak. The thicker or more conductive the cover, the greater the effect. Brass or aluminum would be worse than nickel silver. Non magnetic stainless steel would be the most transparent.

This is because of eddy currents that form on a conductive surface in a magnetic field. The H cutout on a Filter’Tron is there to reduce eddy currents.

Players started taking the metal covers off of humbuckers because they sounded better that way.

The only reason you see covers on pickups today is because some people like the way it looks.


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Comparing 2 different guitars is futile. You'd have to try the same pickups covered and uncovered in the same guitar to know what difference the covers are contributing.

If they are stock SD covers, which I assume they are, then they will have very little impact on the sound.

Have you tried adjusting the heights of the pickups relative to the strings or adjusting the individual pole pieces? You may be able to clear up some of the perceived differences with minor tweaking
 
I’ve had one covered and uncovered in the same guitar. I noticed no difference in tone. I’d wager the different guitars are the issue here.
 
Masta' C said:
If they are stock SD covers, which I assume they are, then they will have very little impact on the sound.
Click to expand...

Yep, I've measured 1dB of difference only @ resonant peak with Duncan nickel covers.

1dB is under the threshold of perception in most situations. That's why I was questioning the actual resistance of pots. ::)

For comparison and for grin, I share below the difference of measured resonant peaks between an uncovered humbucker (green and red lines for each of the two coils) and the same pickup with a bad cover (in black and pink; this cheap anonymous cover was cosmetically similar to a Duncan nickel one... the problem was coming from the material under the plating).


UncoverredHbVStheSame&BadCover.jpg

Let me say that with 6dB of difference around 10khz, the difference was noticeable... :D

The Eddy currents mentioned above by David also affect the speed of the attack, not pictured here... so a cover might make a pickup a wee bit more "compressed" sonically in some conditions. But it's true that in many cases (and especially with the raw nickel finish mentioned by Hamerfan), the difference of EQing is far less obvious than in the pic above. ;)
 
DavidRavenMoon said:
Players started taking the metal covers off of humbuckers because they sounded better that way.

The only reason you see covers on pickups today is because some people like the way it looks.


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Click to expand...

They sound different, not necessarily better.
In a bright guitar with bright or vintage pickups the cover is a very useful tool in taming some of the top-end in the bridge slot. In the neck it can be a great option to reclaim treble. But its much easier (and has a greater effect) simply to disconnect a tone circuit if minor adjustments are to be made that way.

It is patently false to say that the only reason for a cover is looks.
 
AlexR said:
They sound different, not necessarily better.
In a bright guitar with bright or vintage pickups the cover is a very useful tool in taming some of the top-end in the bridge slot. In the neck it can be a great option to reclaim treble. But its much easier (and has a greater effect) simply to disconnect a tone circuit if minor adjustments are to be made that way.

It is patently false to say that the only reason for a cover is looks.
Click to expand...

It seems to me that appearance cannot be the key factor in the sound of an instrument. Of course, quality materials and good construction are important, but instrument tuning is equally important.
 
DavidRavenMoon said:
Players started taking the metal covers off of humbuckers because they sounded better that way. The only reason you see covers on pickups today is because some people like the way it looks.
Click to expand...

I would say they sound different, not better. I use covers because I like the way they tame the highs. It has nothing to do with the looks of the guitar. I have many guitars with and without covers.
 
Agreed, I have used covers (and removed covers) both for aesthetics, as well as a way to fine-tune pickups to a particular guitar.

Anytime "better" is used, it's clearly a matter of opinion.

Something like removing covers in the early days of PAFs and T-tops may have been a popular mod, but I bet most players did it just because it was trendy and not because it was a night and day difference to their tone, though there are certainly going to be instances where that was the case, as well.
 
JB_From_Hell said:
Way back when, I had an Epiphone Les Paul from the 90's. When I saw that Jimmy Page's bridge pickup had no cover, I decided to do the same. I ripped the cover off the pickup, scraped off the wax, and it sounded like a completely different guitar.
Click to expand...

Page did that to move the pickups closer to the strings

But yeah, so small as to not care/notice, or at best slightly different. Better is a matter of opinion, like most things in audio.

Unless LLL says so - then it is a fact, and you need to adjust your bad attitude!
 
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