How should I go forward with this arrangement?

How should I go forward with this arrangement?

  • It’s perfect as is.

    Votes: 1 20.0%

  • Chop, change and rearrange into parts

    Votes: 1 20.0%

  • Scrap some parts and use them as seeds for other new songs

    Votes: 3 60.0%
  • Total voters
    5
El Dunco

El Dunco

Sock Supplier to RHCP
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gkzevn2ew96wexv/HeavySevvy.mp3

I feel I’ve got a pretty good set of riffs here but as far as it being an actual song, I think the changes are either too many or just need a more coherent arrangement because I’m scratching my head as to where the vocals and/or solos would go.

I’m open to suggestions, even if and especially if you consider yourself an expert on arrangements, because I’ve hit a wall with this one. It’s not coming naturally and “flowing” like my writing normally does. Drop a comment with the reasoning behind your vote.
 
All of those riffs are amazing, and the guitar tone is 100%. I would focus on an arrangement ABABCDABD or ABACAB type of thing returning to themes. Pick your favorite 3 or 4 riffs and save the rest for another killer tune.
 
Securb said:
All of those riffs are amazing, and the guitar tone is 100%. I would focus on an arrangement ABABCDABD or ABACAB type of thing returning to themes. Pick your favorite 3 or 4 riffs and save the rest for another killer tune.
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That’s what I’m having trouble with. Deciding which are the best haha. What are your favourites? Funny thing, I was barely thinking about the tone. I just plugged into the Marshall and put one mic where it sounded best. Probably the least produced guitar I’ve ever recorded.
 
For me to honestly give you an intelligent, thought-out answer, I would have to sit down with the tune, and I just don't have the bandwidth these days. I would love to, but when I can get away from that type of stuff these days, I like the downtime. I have 6 clips from our last practice that I still have to listen to, pull apart, and write notes on.
 
Securb said:
For me to honestly give you an intelligent, thought-out answer, I would have to sit down with the tune, and I just don't have the bandwidth these days. I would love to, but when I can get away from that type of stuff these days, I like the downtime. I have 6 clips from our last practice that I still have to listen to, pull apart, and write notes on.
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Fair enough. Just wondered if you had a favourite to be the “face” of the song.

I’ll try out different ways and see if anything clicks.
 
Not an expert by any means but as a listener I do like some repeating riffs or musical themes.

By 0:49-ish I expected a solo to kick in, like before what I would consider the first verse.

I like the middle change up but I was waiting for the first riff or two to come back by the end.

Vocal lines will probably be the best guide as to fine tuning of the structure.
 
DankStar said:
Not an expert by any means but as a listener I do like some repeating riffs or musical themes.

By 0:49-ish I expected a solo to kick in, like before what I would consider the first verse.

I like the middle change up but I was waiting for the first riff or two to come back by the end.

Vocal lines will probably be the best guide as to fine tuning of the structure.
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Okie dokie! I’ll give that a try. Any riffs in there yoi think would make a good verse? Bringing the earlier riffs back is definitely a good idea. It’s basically just riff soup as is.
 
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El Dunco said:
Okie dokie! I’ll give that a try. Any riffs in there yoi think would make a good verse? Bringing the earlier riffs back is definitely a good idea. It’s basically just riff soup as is.
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To me, it feels right at the riff that starts at 1:07-1:08, right after a sick lead. It’s pretty far into the tune but some strategic yells near the beginning plus the solo would make it a normal long thrash intro (kreator’s toxic trace has vocals start at 1:19 for example).
 
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DankStar said:
To me, it feels right at the riff that starts at 1:07-1:08, right after a sick lead. It’s pretty far into the tune but some strategic yells near the beginning plus the solo would make it a normal long thrash intro (kreator’s toxic trace has vocals start at 1:19 for example).
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I agree. The riff at 1:07 is vocal money.

I’ll also add that I feel like maybe the OP should develop some of these riffs a bit more before changing to something else.
In the beginning, once the drums kick in, I feel they need to continue with the same pattern before changing. The drums changed too quickly.
 
I'm not going to claim expertise and anything I say isn't a critique, just my gut reaction as a listener: overall it sounds like the overture to an album. I feel like you could get 2-3 really good songs out of the parts. After 4-6 times around the intro riff, I was expecting it to break into a chord progression and start some vocals. Because of all the riffs, it feels more like an overture to a much longer work. To my ear, anyway. My 2 cents.
 
beaubrummels said:
I'm not going to claim expertise and anything I say isn't a critique, just my gut reaction as a listener: overall it sounds like the overture to an album. I feel like you could get 2-3 really good songs out of the parts. After 4-6 times around the intro riff, I was expecting it to break into a chord progression and start some vocals. Because of all the riffs, it feels more like an overture to a much longer work. To my ear, anyway. My 2 cents.
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The gut reaction of the casual listener is feedback I value just as highly, maybe even higher than professional songwriters and producers. They’re mostly the ones who are going to be listening to the final products. They like music that speaks to them, they connect with on some level.

They don’t react to a song with blatantly poor production issues or hasn’t really reached its full writing potential with “there’s a mostly good song in there, it just needs a better mix,” their brain just tells them it sounds bad and they don’t like it, whether they understand why or not.

That’s why great writing and production for me isn’t just to impress my contemporaries and be strictly a “musician’s musician,” but to convey what I’m trying to express in a universally understandable product, no matter who you are.

While I did call on experts, don’t think for a second I don’t value the feedback just because you aren’t using enough jargon. I definitely understand where you’re all coming from. To begin with, I’ll bring back the intro riff as the verse.

Being fairly harmonically static and very easy to sing over (though I sing while playing some pretty technical riffs that the vocals don’t follow 1:1 live anyway) I can get real creative with the vocals.

The choice now is which riffs to cut. There’s two or even theee riffs that can serve as a chorus, I could link them as a pre chorus and chorus and then there’s two breakdowns. Timestamp which you think would make the most exciting chorus and breakdown. I like the very last outro riff for its interesting chords, but the other has a key change. Then again, I don’t think it’s necessary a bad thing for it to stay in the same key, some absolute bangers use harmomic stasis to great effect (Thieves by Ministry literally stays in E minor the entire time vocals locked in G and it works.)
 
El Dunco said:
Good thing I saved to a new project before I started carving it up.
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I really dig the guitar tone, and I really dig the drum interaction where the cymbals are selectively used and not washing around the entire time.

I used to produce a lot of metal and doom/sludge records so I appreciate the work here

Whats the guitar combo?
 
NegativeEase said:
I really dig the guitar tone, and I really dig the drum interaction where the cymbals are selectively used and not washing around the entire time.

I used to produce a lot of metal and doom/sludge records so I appreciate the work here

Whats the guitar combo?
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It’s my 7 string Agile Hornet, I liked the 6 so much I had to get the 7. This one is all black with the EMTY Blackouts dropped in just straight into to JVM with a PR30 halfway between the cone and dust cap of either a V12 or a G12K. It really was one of those things I wasn’t thinking about, I just wanted to get some riffs to tape and just plugged in until I thought “sounds good.”

I can play drums at least well enough to know how they are played beyond the speed I can physically and more importantly how they can’t be played (a big giveaway on some software drum songs is the octopus drumming.)

I’ll let our drummer do his own thing unless it really needs to be specific, but I enjoy putting those little flourishes and details in there. It makes it far more inspiring to listen to.
 
Oh yeah, the bass is really G&L L2500 on the growly bridge pickup in series, all fingers. Hartke TA300 with a bit of the Mesa DR orange channel on crunch blended. I love that sound.
 
OK - late to the game here!

First - all of it sounded really awesome. Great sound, great riffs.

I'll listen to the final song later. But I think there are easily enough riffs in that for at least one song, and some that could be others. Just the first three or four could easily be an intro, a verse, a pre chorus and a chorus. Might need to extend/shorten/repeat a bit.

I will point out, and this is maybe just me...but I was not a fan of And Justice because they just threw riffs and changes everywhere they possibly could. Meanwhile, the black album is just awesome because bludgeon one riff into the ground - as long as a good riff.
 
Aceman said:
OK - late to the game here!

First - all of it sounded really awesome. Great sound, great riffs.

I'll listen to the final song later. But I think there are easily enough riffs in that for at least one song, and some that could be others. Just the first three or four could easily be an intro, a verse, a pre chorus and a chorus. Might need to extend/shorten/repeat a bit.

I will point out, and this is maybe just me...but I was not a fan of And Justice because they just threw riffs and changes everywhere they possibly could. Meanwhile, the black album is just awesome because bludgeon one riff into the ground - as long as a good riff.
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Interesting you say that because that’s essentially what I did. Much better suited to put vocals and a solo on.
 
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