How soon will we see guitar modeling in a box?

[zionstrat]

I know this isn't really a pup question, it's really a question about bypassing pups, but figured this forum would have the most knowledge?

I assume we are all thinking that line6 already has an 'black box' in their research lab that will be available after they have milked everything they can get out of the variaxe guitars. This would be some type of device that could be added into your own guitar to provide the sounds that the variaxe reproduces.

With that said, is anyone picking up any news off the street as to what this hypothetical product would look like?

1. Would it require a pizeo bridge? It seems that this would be required technology, but a pain and extra cost to retrofit.

2. How 'out of the box' usable do you think it would be? Would you need to be a pretty heavy schematic reader, or will it be a product that most everyone can instal?

3. How much do you think it will cost?

4. When would we expect them to make it avaiable?

Considering this is a dedicated PUP lounge, I would also expect that most of us won't be knowcking down the door to get one. But maybe I'm biased?

The reason I ask is I've seen tutorials where others have pulled the electronics out of a variaxe, to install in their guitar, but that price tag is just to high for me-

We have 1 variaxe in our band and it really helps out when we need a banjo, accoustic, and electric sounds in one song, but I would much prefer to just have this as an option on a push pull on one of my other stage gtrs-

Thanks for your input!

 

[zionstrat]

Re: How soon will we see guitar modeling in a box?

Looks like no one has ideas on this one, but bumping just in case someone had thoughts and missed the first go round-

 

[Guest]

Re: How soon will we see guitar modeling in a box?

1. Would it require a pizeo bridge? It seems that this would be required technology, but a pain and extra cost to retrofit.

Don't know how they do it on the Variax but I always assumed this would be the case. I think piezo's would be the only way. Another pup would mean replacing pups or adding something like the virtual guiitar by Gibson (midi...)

2. How 'out of the box' usable do you think it would be? Would you need to be a pretty heavy schematic reader, or will it be a product that most everyone can instal?

If piezo, I guess there would be two models, one for the foks with a piezo bridge and another to convert your guitar to piezos. I think it would be pretty much add the system and replace a knob or something.

3. How much do you think it will cost?

Way more thanI can afford... 500$

4. When would we expect them to make it avaiable?

As you said, when the variax is fully milked.

Considering this is a dedicated PUP lounge, I would also expect that most of us won't be knowcking down the door to get one. But maybe I'm biased?

I wouldn't mind one. Imagine it on an acoustic or an archtop? Could be great. Might not work like that but I'd be interested.

The reason I ask is I've seen tutorials where others have pulled the electronics out of a variaxe, to install in their guitar, but that price tag is just to high for me-

Tell me about it, I've seen a tele that was just begging me to rob a bank.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: How soon will we see guitar modeling in a box?

Thanks for the input LSP!
Yep I bet your $500 price point is in the ballpark as our variaxe was $480- So there's a premium to gain the privlage of not having to rip the guts out of a guitar you didnt want in the first place

But maybe Alesis, or Yamaha for that matter, have one of these sitting on a shelf as well and they could push the price point down quite a bit if they do.

Off the top of my head, I think $300 ready to instal would be a winning price point (at least one I would consider)- Serious guitarists could probalby afford to look at it as a significant add on to a $700- 1200 primary guitar-

But I wonder if that price point might reach the mass market as well? Someone buys a $200 squire, over the years they get a better ear, but like the feel of the squire- As a $300 add on, a total investment of $500 wouldn't be ridiculous for what might become a middle of the road guitar-

However, in this case, I wonder if this technology is far enough along that folks would see the benefit of an add on that costs more than the guitar?

As much as I like to talk pups, I bet in 10 years this technology will have changed the landscape- Maybe just on the low end (look Ma! 100 guitars for the price of 1!), but it certainly is interesting-

 

[MikeS]

Re: How soon will we see guitar modeling in a box?

1. Would it require a pizeo bridge? It seems that this would be required technology, but a pain and extra cost to retrofit.

Maybe if they could devise something that would fit into the pickup rout of a guitar it might work without being a total PITA. Of course, most electrics would have to undergo an extensive amount of routing to hold the on-board circuitry.

2. How 'out of the box' usable do you think it would be? Would you need to be a pretty heavy schematic reader, or will it be a product that most everyone can instal?

If they are smart they'd make it as plug and play as possible. If it's priced in a range that the average Joe can afford, the modification needs to be simple enough for the average Joe to perform.

3. How much do you think it will cost?

My guess is that it'd start out more than $700 for a conversion kit, maybe more. Price would come down once the technology ages a little bit and other manufacturers get in on the craze, should it take off.

4. When would we expect them to make it avaiable?

I'm not so sure this would ever pay off for a company like Line6. I think they'd have better success approaching guitar manufactures about buying the electronic system, making the modelling guitar idea available in more brands and in more models. Kind of like how Fender, Jackson, Schecter, etc, use Seymour Duncans in some of their stock instruments. We may see Line6 modelling technology available in an honost Fender MIA Strat.

Considering this is a dedicated PUP lounge, I would also expect that most of us won't be knowcking down the door to get one. But maybe I'm biased?

True, I wouldn't be amongst the first in line, but that doesn't mean I'd never go for one. I've never been a one guitar man, so buying a guitar that could potentially replace all my guitars doesn't excite me. It does have a lot to do with tone, sure, but I can't expect a single guitar to have more mojo than all my axes combined.

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: How soon will we see guitar modeling in a box?

Roland VG88 and GK2A pickup.

 

[Guest]

Re: How soon will we see guitar modeling in a box?

I assumed the "box" would be something small. I know the original Variax has kind of a volumous hardware but still.

300 or even 500 wouldn't be too much if you considered the versatility you can get. Sure it's expensive, but trust me, around here getting 2 buckers and a bridge to upgrade a squire or something in those lines would cost you the same as that hardware. It's a matter of considering what you want/need. and besides you could have a cheap, workhorse guitar to trash around and not worry. Lost or destroyed it would be easy to get a new "box" and install it in a new guitar. Much better than paying 3000 for a guitar with just it's own sound if you ask me.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: How soon will we see guitar modeling in a box?

Mike- It would be interesting if they can sell it as a standalone for more than in one of their guitars, but I wouldn't cross it out-

You don't need to sell me Benjy! I'm still a dedicated GP100 abuser and used the original VG8 a lot- Both are about as good as I could ask for in modeling-

But I've got a feeling that this next generation will be onboard and the dedicated pup thing still throws me- I wonder how many will be ok with a pezo or hex, or if they will have to find a way to make this work using a pup as the source?

Thx for the input!

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: How soon will we see guitar modeling in a box?

The problem with a small box attached to the insides of your guitar is that switching isn't as easy when it's on a rotary dial, as it is on the floor in front of you. The idea sounds like a good viable idea that'll probably be put into production by someone, but I think floorboards will always be the way that musicians will want to do their switching.

I remember that tuning contraption that could be built into guitars, so you could push a button for alternate tunings. People never warmed up to the idea of adding all that stuff to their guitar.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: How soon will we see guitar modeling in a box?

Yep I'm running 2 expresion pedals and a full midi board and sometimes a paralel accoustic pedal, so I like to use my feet-

On the other hand, our rhythem guitarist uses the varixe 90% of the time and has the 4 or 5 sounds he uses the most sitting in the custom location, so it's usually just a 5 way switch change-

I've gotten used to it now, but at first it was amazing to have him start off with a 12 string accoustic patch and find him crunching the LPjr by the end of the song-

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: How soon will we see guitar modeling in a box?

I'm surprised they can't fit it all into something the size of a deck of cards, so you could install it in 10 minutes. Basically a tiny FX unit velcroed to the cavity plate, then a rotary pot, and lithium battery. If they can pack all that into a Variax, I'm sure they could squeeze it into a deck of cards.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: How soon will we see guitar modeling in a box?

Roland VG88 and GK2A pickup.

I think I'm the only other one who remembers it (or noticed your post)

 

[yeti]

Re: How soon will we see guitar modeling in a box?

It would probably come with a new bridge to install, since that's where the special "pup" is located that transfers everything to digital. I think MikeS is right, they would prolly sell the "rights" to another guitar company. I've heard Line6 gets extremely upset when DIY people rip the guts out and put them in custom guitars.
BTW, I A/B'd a Variax 300 ($500) and a 700 ($1400) at the local shop today. I honestly didn't see much change in playability to justify the $700 difference; all cosmetic. I considered ordering a 600 model (with the maple neck) just to have around for goofing off, but luckily, the "buy it or get out" attitude from the salesman depleted my GAS real quick.

 

[Amateur]

Re: How soon will we see guitar modeling in a box?

I think Roland had already made something similar to this, and that's the MIDI ready guitar. All you have to do is plug it into any MIDI sound module and you can get the kind of sound you want and you can play live or record it. I can even do this by writing patches to my old Boss GT-3 with my regular guitar with some success. The black box is probably some kind of MIDI sound module in disguise. Depending on the quality of the patches you get, the cost may be in the $300-$1,200 range and that is the market price for the MIDI sound modules. Line6 probably will come out with a cheap one first and then add more bells and whistles to it to charge you for an arm and a leg like what Boss and Roland are doing. I don't think this is going to get big because the MIDI keyboard has already filled the market of multi timbre musical instruments. I don't see a need for it because I play keyboard and I have synthesizers and sound modules coming out from my ears already. It may just fade like the MIDI ready guitar.

 

[Zerberus]

Re: How soon will we see guitar modeling in a box?

Roland VG88 and GK2A pickup.

+1

How soon: ABout 10 years ago w/ the original Roland VG-8

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: How soon will we see guitar modeling in a box?

+1

How soon: ABout 10 years ago w/ the original Roland VG-8

Do you guys remember the first time you saw a demo of the VG-8 :saeek:
I was probably 14, and an Ibanez PT-5 was the most advanced processor I'd ever seen :laugh2: I spent the next two weeks begging everybody for $1500 or whatever crazy price it was.