How to apply the diminished scale?

[UberMetalDood]

I've been using the modes, chord inversions, etc... for a while now. I'm not that big on music theory but I think I understand the basics. Recently, I ran into a friend who likes to use the diminished scale and his compositions are incredible. I didn't have the opportunity to ask him questions but it seemed like he was making little alterations to the modes.

I really liked his tonality and want to learn how to do it. All I know is that he said he incorporates the diminished scale. What does that mean and what's the simplest way I can apply it in my playing?

 

[DankStar]

Re: How to apply the diminished scale?

I know skolnick goes nuts with the dimimished - uses it a lot on the latest testament disc (he spoke of it during a guitar Guitar World lesson once for a solo off the formation of dangnation - it was on comcast for awhile, but long gone now). I tried to find it again on GW's website, but did not. However, I found a cool article about how yngwie links up modal and dimimished scales:

http://www.guitarworld.com/article/yngwie_j_malmsteen_classic_act

This part is interesting:
If one were to play an F diminished-seven arpeggio (F Gs B D), the notes would also be found residing within the E Phrygian-dominant scale. So, in the key of A minor, you can mix and match and throw together these three resources— the A harmonic minor and E Phrygiandominant scales and the F diminishedseven arpeggio—anyway you like.

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don't forget if you're searching for scales to match chords in a tune to solo over, you can plug in the chords and see what diminished scales will fit over them:

http://www.chordsandscales.co.uk/

simplest way to work 'em in would be to just make a simple chord progression and fiddle with the appropriate diminished scales that pop up in the scale finder thingy.

 

[cream123]

Re: How to apply the diminished scale?

you use the scale to "alter" dominant seven chords.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: How to apply the diminished scale?

You can use a diminished run in between any step in a diatonic scale.

For example, in the key of C you have

C - Maj
D - Min
E - Min
F - Maj
G - Maj
A - Min
B - Dim


You can play diminshed on C#, D#, F#, G#, and A#

Diminished runs add a lot of dissonance and tension, but if used with discretion are a GREAT writing tool!

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: How to apply the diminished scale?

I'll occasionally pop diminished arpeggio runs in between minor pentatonic phrases . . . it adds a little bit of an outside sound that you can play around with, then resolve back to the inside sounding minor scale. It's also very simple to do.

Minor Pentatonic scale: 1 - b3 - 4 - 5 - b7
Diminished Arp: 1 - b3 - b5 - 6

I usually ditch the 4th from the minor pentatonic (making it more of a min 7th arp I guess), then hit the b5 for dissonance and hit the 6th to sound kinda bluesy.

 

[UberMetalDood]

Re: How to apply the diminished scale?

You can use a diminished run in between any step in a diatonic scale.

For example, in the key of C you have

C - Maj
D - Min
E - Min
F - Maj
G - Maj
A - Min
B - Dim


You can play diminshed on C#, D#, F#, G#, and A#

Diminished runs add a lot of dissonance and tension, but if used with discretion are a GREAT writing tool!

Do you have to change the underlying chords or does it work on whatever chords you're playing in that key? For instance if I'm in the key of C and playing chords I & IV, would I need to alter them somehow or just add the diminished notes in my solo?

It can also be either 1/2 OR whole step intervals right?

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: How to apply the diminished scale?

Diminished runs add a lot of dissonance and tension, but if used with discretion are a GREAT writing tool!

I'll occasionally pop diminished arpeggio runs in between minor pentatonic phrases . . . it adds a little bit of an outside sound that you can play around with, then resolve back to the inside sounding minor scale. It's also very simple to do.

Minor Pentatonic scale: 1 - b3 - 4 - 5 - b7
Diminished Arp: 1 - b3 - b5 - 6

I usually ditch the 4th from the minor pentatonic (making it more of a min 7th arp I guess), then hit the b5 for dissonance and hit the 6th to sound kinda bluesy.

Stv said it in one word. Outside.

I shall offer two words. John Coltrane.

 

[nepalnt21]

Re: How to apply the diminished scale?



excessive diminished fifths can lead to many people exiting the vicinity; but i i like it, anyway.

 

[cream123]

Re: How to apply the diminished scale?

anytime you are transitioning up from a I to IV it works well too