How to use low-output pups?

[Jazzfiend101]

Hi guys, I've a few questions on how to use some of these pickups that I've got. My two guitars I use are a couple of Epiphone Les Pauls that I've more or less gutted to the point that they just aren't off the shelf Epi's. I did this... because we are in a recession. So, the first I have is a Custom. All bells and whistles aside, the pickups in it are an A2P in the neck and a PG in the bridge. I put the PG in first, and it really really works well. Great pup. There's nothing about it I don't like. Admittedly I'm a big Page, Gibbons, Joe Perry, and Slash fan. I thought maybe a good idea would be to stick an A2P in the neck, as people told me the low output would supposedly balance the sound of the sharper PG's bite. I liked it a lot, at first. But I'm noticing that when playing on thicker strings towards my 12th fret, you know where it's supposed to be really a heavier, chunkier, boooowng, sound, my sound drops out.

Now, I've used a few drive pedals, as I push my Crate VC50's distortion to 8, and drive its output pretty hard, and there's still this sort of muddier incoherent sound. Granted, the A2P cleans up excellently even when the amp is driving hard, it just seems that she's got too fat of an ass when I'm playing my bottom strings in that upper register (I lose tone). I've got the amp to sound great on its own, and I really enjoy the sound of it, and I try to avoid to slap pedal after pedal on a rig (less is more, sometimes). But, that A2P seems to be the part of the equation of sound that is making me raise my eyebrow. I'm not yet willing to write it off completely, yet, so I'm wondering if I'm using it the wrong way.

In contrast, I've got another Epi Standard that had a really good set of stock pickups in it, suprisingly. I put in a '59 PuP in it and it really added some clarity to the slightly darker sound of the stock PuP without doing any. The 59 gets a good sound really like Warren Haynes, and I can still drive my amp the same as with the other guitar.

Granted, I'm not trying to copy anybody, but the issue is with the Epi Custom. I wanted to play around with the sound to see if I could get the best of both worlds, cover a few sounds. I'm not going for a jazz sound, and I'm really not trying to copy a Pantera sound, although the PG gets really kickin' when that amp gets to that heavy metal environment.

So that's the backdrop, here's the question: how do people use low-output pickups to get brashy rockin sounds? I've seen everything on the net that can't seem to give me a clear answer on that. I'm looking for the equation. How on earth does a guy like Yngwie use really low output single coil pups but gets this soaring lead tone? How does Slash use lower output pups but manages to get this cutting bite to his sound? I know a lot of this is subjective, and yes there's always, "He's got a pedal," or "They touched up his tone in the studio."

Do any of you guys use low outputs for rockin stuff? Are there any of you who use a higher pup mixed with a moderately low pup? Is there something I'm not doing with the amp I have? I'd appreciate any advice.

 

[blueman335]

Re: How to use low-output pups?

Welcome aboard!

A lot of us combine a high output bridge with a PAF neck. Works well. And a pair of PAF's in an LP is always good.

I don't know if you've done any tweaking, but you can take out some of the mids and lows from a neck PU by raising the pole pieces and lowering the PU, especially on the bass side. I did that to my A2P neck and that took out the woofiness.

We also swap magnets, and A2's are the darkest, warmest magnet. Switching to an A3, A4, A5, or UOA5 will give you varying amounts of more treble and less mids, which goes a long way towards cleaning up a neck PU.

 

[speed2dirt]

Re: How to use low-output pups?

here's the question: how do people use low-output pickups to get brashy rockin sounds? How on earth does a guy like Yngwie use really low output single coil pups but gets this soaring lead tone? How does Slash use lower output pups but manages to get this cutting bite to his sound?

Low output pickups need a high gain amp. Mark Morton of Lamb Of God uses SD 59s, but plays through a Mesa Mark V. Slash uses the A2P through his signature JCM800. Yngwie's signature Marshall has a built-in booster & noise gate, letting you know it's hot-rodded. High-output pickups push an amp into overdrive, but if you have a high enough gain amp there's no reason to push it. Just my 2 cents.

 

[CountFunkula]

Re: How to use low-output pups?

How on earth does a guy like Yngwie use really low output single coil pups but gets this soaring lead tone? How does Slash use lower output pups but manages to get this cutting bite to his sound? I know a lot of this is subjective, and yes there's always, "He's got a pedal," or "They touched up his tone in the studio."

Yngwie and Slash use Marshalls. LOUD Marshalls. That's the main contributor to that wonderful lead tone.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: How to use low-output pups?

Morton used almost every pickup available, not just the 59. You can find various shots from the same tour where he's got EMGs, Duncans, DiMarzios, etc. He said he was trying to find what works best for him. Not sure if he ever did.

If you're using a low output neck pickup extensively, set the amp to match that first, then the bridge pickup.

Or just get an EQ pedal to cut/boost whatever issue the neck pickup has.

 

[Jazzfiend101]

Re: How to use low-output pups?

Gentlemen I appreciate the advice. I notice that my Pearly Gates pup has no problem adjusting to any of the sounds I throw at it. The Crate Vintage Club 50 is an underrated tube amp worth its grain of salt, says I. It drives fairly well on its own. I'm not a pedal junkie, but I like a good drive pedal. I know a lot of you seasoned vets might have had some experience with a few of these pedals, so I'll press you gents about what you suggest works best with a low output pup. I'm not willing to give up on the pup just yet.

Both pups respond pretty clear with the amp on its own. Guys honestly I notice something about the pickups that may seem obvious to some of you, but it's a eureka to me: The Pearly Gates, the slightly hotter pup in my doghouse, cleans up with a bright shimmer even when the amp is wailing. I've got a good set of pots that assist me in that. However, the A2P REALLY cleans up with but just a nudge of the pot. Not necessarily a bad thing at all, really. But is that normal for a low output pup? That they clean up earlier than a hotter pup?

The clean channel on my amp has both of these pickups sparkling clearly and just perfectly. The drive channel is roaring, but here's my question: if the pickups work perfectly in the clean channel, would slapping a versatile OD/Dist pedal over the clean really let my guitar shine better than my drive channel?

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: How to use low-output pups?

Given the pg's greater output, the pot resists it less. Given the a2p's weaker output, the pot dominates it.

A drive pedal will assist the pickups in driving the amp, but could dominate the pickup tone.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: How to use low-output pups?

what hes describing is why im not really into a2 mag pickups of any description. I know they work for a lot of players, but give me a 59 over an a2 anyday. The issue is not the output in this case imo, its the magnet.

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: How to use low-output pups?

My solution is to use a Mesa Boogie amp--a high quality tube amp with a singing gain channel; and a DOD FX10 Preamp as a clean boost. The pedal gives me a modest boost (I have the LEVEL up at about noon), and it is always on with my G&L Legacy (strat) and off for normal parts with my Les Pauls. If I NEED a little extra with the Paul, I can easily switch the boost on.

Bill

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: How to use low-output pups?

One question that needs asking here. What approximate age are the two Epiphones? This could be important because, at different times, different timbers have been used in the construction of their instruments - not necessarily the ones associated with the classic Gibson tonewood recipe.

One guy in my area used to own a late nineties Epi LP Standard. The bulk of the body of this guitar resembled Alder. The neck was maple. The top could have been any one of several possible woods that resemble flamed maple, including sycamore. This guitar was set up nicely enough but it never had THAT tone, no matter what pickups were tried in it.

 

[skynyrd]

Re: How to use low-output pups?

Making sure you have your pups set at the correct height will make a difference in how the pups respond to your picking style. I always set mine up low then raise them a little at a time until I get the best sustain, once the sustain dies out too quickly I back it down where it got the best sustain. Neck pups unless you go with a higher output will or can get muddy if they are too close to the strings, playing with the screws on top raising them a touch and getting the eq and tone you want will help. Higher output neck pups allow you to set them up lower and not overpower the tone. For the PG bridge I put a UOA5 in mine and I love it ALOT more than the A2 in it, better harmonics, better output, even a little raunchier in sound.

 

[WhooHoo]

Re: How to use low-output pups?

Amps and pedals have knobs that turn for adjustments.

Pickups have screws that turn for adjustments.