Howard Roberts swap

velorush

velorush

New member
I have been lurking here for years, but now I need some more specific help and would appreciate any suggestions. I have a '91 Gibby Howard Roberts Fusion I bought new. I have hated the 490T bridge pup since new because of the "modern sounding" mid hump. Honestly, I've had it so long and, being my only humbucker guitar, I'd written buckers off completely... until I bought an old Hamer Special ('80) with original DiMarzio PAFs last month. I was blown away and realized that what my HRF needs is a new set of pickups.

The HRF has to do double duty. Sunday mornings and evenings I play mostly traditional church music with a piano and organ. Wednesday nights I play contemporary music with the youth. I also gig occasionally with a contemporary Christian group. I was contemplating a set of '59s, but a dealer has recommended a Jazz/'59 combo. After reading, I think that may do better. He has 4-conductor '59's - I am interested in series/parallel switching to perhaps provide a bit of a single coil-ish sound. Due to the noisy nature of the old sanctuary, I have to keep humbucking, otherwise I'd just use my Strat. One other thing: the HRF hardware is gold.

Does the Jazz/'59 combo sound like a good suggestion? Is there something that might work better?
 
Re: Howard Roberts swap

The Jazz/59 combo sounds good in a hollow, but you have to keep in mind that the mid hump comes from the hollow nature of your guitar too. I encountered this too with my Epi Sheraton and decided on some Phat Cats to cut some mids and get some more treble sparkle back. While the PC's are single coils, they do have a grounded nickle (or gold plated, like mine) casing that keeps them as quiet as most PAF tyoe pickups.
 
Re: Howard Roberts swap

I have a 1979 Hamer Special too. Great guitar, although the neck pickup is a bit bass boomy and the bridge could have little more beef. I had a big search for the right pickups in my ES 335. I ended with a Ants Set with the Bridge humbucker having a Seth magnet.
For you might suit a Seth Lover Set (this is the normal production version of the Ants). I had also a Jazz Set and 59 set in this guitar (which is a PIA to change pups). The 59 was way brighter than the Ants, the Jazz set has a little more mids and seem to be more even.
 
Re: Howard Roberts swap

Part of what you like about the DiMarzio PAF's is the tone from the A5 magnets (490's have A2's). Magnets contribute a lot to a PU's EQ and output. A5's have a crisper, clearer sound with less mids, a tight low end, and higher output, whereas A2's have a lot of mids, a very rounded high end (sometimes overly rounded), a loose bottom, and low output. Being a Strat single coil guu, and being new to this (and not having a stash of extra PU's on hand like some of us do), I'd recommened not getting another PU with an A2 magnet. This is part of where that "modern sounding mid hump" is coming from.

First step is always "work with what you have." I bought a number of Gibson PU's because I know they're high quality, and I wanted to have Gibsons in some of my guitars (490R, 490T, 498T, '57 Classic, and 500T). I was surprised thatI didn't think any of them sounded as good as I thought they would. In every one I've ended up changing the magnets, and now they all sound very good. The 490 series uses A2's, which to my ears makes the neck mushy & blurred, and the bridge weak & thin. But, when I put A5's in the neck, it suddenly had treble and definition; it sounded much more like a PAF or '59. In the bridge I used A4's, and this gave more "cut", tightened up the bottom, increased output, and took away some mids without being scooped, making the sound stonger & better balanced. You may prefer an A5 in the bridge yourself for more treble & fewer mids.

There are many old threads explaining magnet swapping and even online pictoral instruction; it takes 10 minutes & requires the skill level of the average 12 year old. You can get most magnets for $5 from Wymore Guitars.com.

If you decide that you still want to spend the money on new PU's, the '59B/JazzN would be a very good set (bright, clean, articulate), and you can get them with 4 wire leads to do the alternative wiring you mentioned. The reason a JazzN sometimes works better than a '59N (both have A5 magnets), is that the '59B's low end can be a little boomy in some guitars.

I have Phat Cats (P-90's in a HB size) in a few guitars. These defintely need their magnets swapped out (they each come with two A2's). With different magnets, their tone is vastly improved, but because they're single coils, they only have single wire leads (plus ground). I have a HB bridge/Phat Cat neck in a couple guitars, and that is an excellent combination. You can still do coil cut & phase on the bridge HB (parallel on a bridge HB is next to useless, as it is extremely bright & puny); but parallel is a viable alternative on a neck HB. For the bridge, coil cut is preferrable. If you link the PU's themselves in series/parallel, it gives very dark & powerful sounds (doesn't sound like what you'd want).
 
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Re: Howard Roberts swap

I had a 92 HR Fusion for many years but wound up selling it. Mine was a very bright guitar (all that maple/balsa wood combo?), so I know putting a Jazz in there would have made it brighter...honestly, I got a better 'semi hollow' jazz sound out of some of my solidbodies. I loved the guitar, too- I wish mine had the 'overly' mid problem your guitar had.
 
Re: Howard Roberts swap

Thanks for all of those great comments and suggestions. I had considered the magnet swap early on, but the neck pickup seems to have a problem as it reads only 5.6k ohms DC resistance. I think it must have a short in one of the coils. It sounds okay, but really doesn't do the instrument justice. The bridge pup mid hump I'm describing is really in the upper mids. To me every note is like someone saying the "cli" part of the word "climb" while talking through their nose. I just don't hear this when playing acoustically. Turning the tone knob to around 4 seems to help some, but then lots of other good frequencies get attenuated (BTW: the "modern sounding" tag line I used is from Gibson's site describing the 490T).

I agree with the thoughts on the A5 magnets (from reading rather than experience) and that helps push me toward the Jazz/'59 combo (I just hope the Jazz isn't too terribly bright). I have tried a friend's Les Paul Studio with the 498T (A5) and it is better, but not really what I am looking for, and so I am looking at Duncans. I like the theory of unevenly matched coils (from reading the Lollar site) and considered a set of PGs, but the reviews I've read point to the PG being really bright. The ebony board and balsa block make this a pretty bright sounding guitar to be semi-hollow and to be as thick as it is. Maybe PGs with A5 magnets?

To me the greatest humbucker guitar tone ever recorded is Billy Gibbons' solo on Cheap Sunglasses. I really like the tones that Warren Haynes and Joe Bonamassa get out of their Les Pauls, too. I realize the HRF is not Pearly, and not a Les Paul, and I don't have those guys' hands, but those are the types of tones I am looking for, though with a bit of the warmth of the semi-hollow grunt.

Mincer, this one was just okay sounding until sometime around mid-2007. It, too, was kind of overly bright without a lot of depth. For some reason (maybe playing it more regularly, playing regularly next to a grand piano or maybe age) it has loosened up (acoustically) and has this wonderful resonant grunt that I haven't had out of a guitar since back around 1986 or so when I was playing a really worn late-60's ES355. I am really curious to get some new pups in it that will hopefully translate this through to an amplified signal (like the Hamer I mentioned in the original post).
 
Re: Howard Roberts swap

velorush said:
To me the greatest humbucker guitar tone ever recorded is Billy Gibbons' solo on Cheap Sunglasses. I really like the tones that Warren Haynes and Joe Bonamassa get out of their Les Pauls, too. I realize the HRF is not Pearly, and not a Les Paul, and I don't have those guys' hands, but those are the types of tones I am looking for, though with a bit of the warmth of the semi-hollow grunt.
Click to expand...

If that PU really is 5.6, there's a problem somewhere.

You mentioned a 498T, which are around 14K, making them high output. Their tone has a grainy quality to it, which is good in the right applications. Like you said, this probably isn't the direction you want to head, as high output PU's mask some of the wood's inherent tones.

In case there's a flood of posts recommending that you get the same PU's Billy Gibbons used, remember this: every piece of wood is different (grain, desity, mineral content, water content, etc), and he's playing thru a different amp, speakers, & effects than you are. You can't just buy a certain set of PU's and think you'll automatically sound just like your hero. Doesn't work that way. They may get you closer, or with your rig, they may not.
 
Re: Howard Roberts swap

blueman335 said:
If that PU really is 5.6, there's a problem somewhere.

You mentioned a 498T, which are around 14K, making them high output. Their tone has a grainy quality to it, which is good in the right applications. Like you said, this probably isn't the direction you want to head, as high output PU's mask some of the wood's inherent tones.

In case there's a flood of posts recommending that you get the same PU's Billy Gibbons used, remember this: every piece of wood is different (grain, desity, mineral content, water content, etc), and he's playing thru a different amp, speakers, & effects than you are. You can't just buy a certain set of PU's and think you'll automatically sound just like your hero. Doesn't work that way. They may get you closer, or with your rig, they may not.
Click to expand...
Not to mention what I believe to be the single largest element in his tone (at least in the early lower-gain days): his hands. I very much like the 8-9k ohm pups (generally speaking) as I feel they bring more of the guitar into the equation. I have an old 10k Super Distortion in an '83 Phantom A5 and that has its place, but not (IMHO) in this guitar.
 
Re: Howard Roberts swap

velorush said:
Not to mention what I believe to be the single largest element in his tone (at least in the early lower-gain days): his hands.
Click to expand...


As much as we get wrapped up in equipment on these forums, a player's hands and technique are a huge, but unquantifiable part of the equation.
 
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