AudioWonderland
New member
The duncan wiring diagram indicates parallel has lowe outout than split. Can someone explain why that is in tech terms?
humbucker in parallel is lower in output than split?
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ItsaBass
New member
Re: humbucker in parallel is lower in output than split?
I don't know exactly why on a physical level (i.e. what exact forces are at work and why and how). But it's one of the basic characteristics of electricity that when you have inductors (pickup coils in this case) in parallel, you get less total inductance than you would get from any one of those inductors alone.
I don't know exactly why on a physical level (i.e. what exact forces are at work and why and how). But it's one of the basic characteristics of electricity that when you have inductors (pickup coils in this case) in parallel, you get less total inductance than you would get from any one of those inductors alone.
jtougas
New member
Re: humbucker in parallel is lower in output than split?
If you have two coils of 4k-ohm each, in series they sum to 8k-ohm. In parallel, it comes to... roughly a quarter of the total... (the actual formula is u=(1/((1/x)+(1/y)+...) and so on.
With 4k-ohm coils, that comes to 2k-ohms.
With a 3k-ohm and a 5k-ohm, it comes to 1.85k-ohms.
http://diyaudioprojects.com/Technical/Electronics/parallel-inductor-calculator.htm
Why? Because electricity does weird s#$%.
If you have two coils of 4k-ohm each, in series they sum to 8k-ohm. In parallel, it comes to... roughly a quarter of the total... (the actual formula is u=(1/((1/x)+(1/y)+...) and so on.
With 4k-ohm coils, that comes to 2k-ohms.
With a 3k-ohm and a 5k-ohm, it comes to 1.85k-ohms.
http://diyaudioprojects.com/Technical/Electronics/parallel-inductor-calculator.htm
Why? Because electricity does weird s#$%.
AudioWonderland
New member
Re: humbucker in parallel is lower in output than split?
Output is word used on the diagram
Output is word used on the diagram
constant mesh
New member
Re: humbucker in parallel is lower in output than split?
If both coils are of equal DC resistance, then it will have the same measurable DC output as playing it splitted.
When you split the coils you are only playing on one coil so the maximum DC resistance on the output is the nominal DCR of that particular coil.
When you wire two coils in parallel, the formula goes like this: output DC R = (1R x 2R)/(1R + 2R). I would measure each coil and do the calculactions first, the decide what to do next.
If both coils are of equal DC resistance, then it will have the same measurable DC output as playing it splitted.
When you split the coils you are only playing on one coil so the maximum DC resistance on the output is the nominal DCR of that particular coil.
When you wire two coils in parallel, the formula goes like this: output DC R = (1R x 2R)/(1R + 2R). I would measure each coil and do the calculactions first, the decide what to do next.
Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: humbucker in parallel is lower in output than split?
If it helps, water flow is often used as an analogy for electric current flow in electronics courses:
If you take the same amount of water running through a pipe and split the flow into two parallel pipes (assuming the capacity of the parallel pipes is equal to or greater than that of the pre-split pipe), the water pressure in each of the two pipes (parallel) will be less than the pressure in the pipe that is not split (series). Thus the current flow in each coil is less when in parallel than in series.
If it helps, water flow is often used as an analogy for electric current flow in electronics courses:
If you take the same amount of water running through a pipe and split the flow into two parallel pipes (assuming the capacity of the parallel pipes is equal to or greater than that of the pre-split pipe), the water pressure in each of the two pipes (parallel) will be less than the pressure in the pipe that is not split (series). Thus the current flow in each coil is less when in parallel than in series.
AudioWonderland
New member
Re: humbucker in parallel is lower in output than split?
Thanks!!
If both coils are of equal DC resistance, then it will have the same measurable DC output as playing it splitted.
When you split the coils you are only playing on one coil so the maximum DC resistance on the output is the nominal DCR of that particular coil.
When you wire two coils in parallel, the formula goes like this: output DC R = (1R x 2R)/(1R + 2R). I would measure each coil and do the calculactions first, the decide what to do next.
Thanks!!
Re: humbucker in parallel is lower in output than split?
The output isn't lower, it just misses perhaps some of the frequencies that make a single coil cut. I mean the 2/4 positions on a strat are 2 single coils connected in parallel.....they cluck more due to some frequencies cancelling, but there are some other frequencies that are added.
The output isn't lower, it just misses perhaps some of the frequencies that make a single coil cut. I mean the 2/4 positions on a strat are 2 single coils connected in parallel.....they cluck more due to some frequencies cancelling, but there are some other frequencies that are added.
AudioWonderland
New member
Re: humbucker in parallel is lower in output than split?
I understand why series wiring is louder that parallel. The doc on SD's site on wiring a series/parallel/split switch indicates that a parallel wired humbucker has lower output than split. sounds like there is a formula for it
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=ssp
I understand why series wiring is louder that parallel. The doc on SD's site on wiring a series/parallel/split switch indicates that a parallel wired humbucker has lower output than split. sounds like there is a formula for it
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=ssp
Re: humbucker in parallel is lower in output than split?
There are many misconceptions, even mistakes with some of the things on the wiring diagrams. So don't take it as read that everything there is guaranteed to be correct.
Pickups are a signal generator (in this case a transducer). They function much more like a battery than a resistor.....in fact likening pickups resistance to output is about the most wrong thing perpetuated on forums.
Two 9v batteries connected in parallel will still be 9v. There are still some differences between the way a pickup works and how batteries work - but it is infinitely closer than comparing resistance.
There are many misconceptions, even mistakes with some of the things on the wiring diagrams. So don't take it as read that everything there is guaranteed to be correct.
Pickups are a signal generator (in this case a transducer). They function much more like a battery than a resistor.....in fact likening pickups resistance to output is about the most wrong thing perpetuated on forums.
Two 9v batteries connected in parallel will still be 9v. There are still some differences between the way a pickup works and how batteries work - but it is infinitely closer than comparing resistance.
jtougas
New member
Re: humbucker in parallel is lower in output than split?
And the award for not reading the contents of his own thread go to... *grin*
And the award for not reading the contents of his own thread go to... *grin*
AudioWonderland
New member
Re: humbucker in parallel is lower in output than split?
What the hell are you talking about?
What the hell are you talking about?
GoldenVulture
Braindeadologist
Re: humbucker in parallel is lower in output than split?
Try reading posts #4 and #6
:kabong:
Try reading posts #4 and #6
:kabong:
AudioWonderland
New member
Re: humbucker in parallel is lower in output than split?
I did read them. Thats why i acknowledged those posts when i said there is a formula. ie that i already had my question answered.
I did read them. Thats why i acknowledged those posts when i said there is a formula. ie that i already had my question answered.
Re: humbucker in parallel is lower in output than split?
Actually, NO.
jtougas was correct. The formula is 1/Rt = 1/R1 + 1/R2 + 1/R3...etc. (same formula for both resistance and inductance).
When you wire two coils in parallel, the formula goes like this: output DC R = (1R x 2R)/(1R + 2R). I would measure each coil and do the calculactions first, the decide what to do next.
Actually, NO.
jtougas was correct. The formula is 1/Rt = 1/R1 + 1/R2 + 1/R3...etc. (same formula for both resistance and inductance).
Re: humbucker in parallel is lower in output than split?
You are only partially correct, because you are referring to both "resistance" and "output" which are NOT the same.
If you are equating "output" with "resistance" then you are TOTALLY wrong. The resistance of the pup in parallel would be half the resistance of either coil alone.
However, if you are equating "output" with voltage, then you would be correct...(eg: 3 9V batteries in parallel would still be a total of 9V [the amperage would be trippled, however]).
You are only partially correct, because you are referring to both "resistance" and "output" which are NOT the same.
If you are equating "output" with "resistance" then you are TOTALLY wrong. The resistance of the pup in parallel would be half the resistance of either coil alone.
However, if you are equating "output" with voltage, then you would be correct...(eg: 3 9V batteries in parallel would still be a total of 9V [the amperage would be trippled, however]).
hermetico
New member
Re: humbucker in parallel is lower in output than split?
I will not enter in electrical variables.
The fact is that LOUDNESS (subjective perceived volume, that isn't the same as volume) is usually slightly lower than a split coil.
This will depend always on each pickup and which frequencies are being cancelled or reinforced when running both coils in parallel.
But, in my own experience:
split coil sounds 60% of the humbucker loudness.
parallel coils sound around 50% of the humbucker loudness.
out-of-phase coils sound around 40% of the humbucker loudness.
Once more, this is the subjective perceived volume (loudness) and, it isn't related to volume (which can be measured with a vu-meter) or sound preasure level (SPL) or any other measurable dimension.
I will not enter in electrical variables.
The fact is that LOUDNESS (subjective perceived volume, that isn't the same as volume) is usually slightly lower than a split coil.
This will depend always on each pickup and which frequencies are being cancelled or reinforced when running both coils in parallel.
But, in my own experience:
split coil sounds 60% of the humbucker loudness.
parallel coils sound around 50% of the humbucker loudness.
out-of-phase coils sound around 40% of the humbucker loudness.
Once more, this is the subjective perceived volume (loudness) and, it isn't related to volume (which can be measured with a vu-meter) or sound preasure level (SPL) or any other measurable dimension.
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