I need improvement in my improv
- Thread starter cream123
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cream123
JustAskinologist
tone4days
Heel Whacker
Re: I need improvement in my improv
first - nice work .. that is a real good start to pentatonic based improv
do you have a backing track chord progression in Bb to work over? .. if not, record one and put it on infinite loop repeat ... the most MOST important thing about improvising is making the notes SAY something in the context of a chord progression ... if you are just noodling without context, you better be as good as eddie van halen (a la eruption) if you wnat to make some kind of musical statement ...
you need to leave out those low note double stops and heavy chord like things .. they really do not have a place in the idiom you are dipping your toe into at this time .. in the future, when you are a master of the domain, you wil be able to put whatever you want in and it will sound good .. but for now, you need to stick to the shallow end
do you only downpick? ... there is something about the attack of your notes that doesnt breath or bounce ... you really want to do some solid picking exercises up and down .... do not go for speed ... go for excellent finger tone and precision ... play scales with alternate pick strokes both straight and swung eigth notes ... i also think you need to play a bit slower until your right hand/left hand synchronization gets better .. you still hit a lot of flub notes cause you pick before your left hand is really in the proper position
i do not think your high notes sound 'chinese' on the recording ... if they sound that way live, roll the highs back on the tone control or amp EQ settings, use heavier gauge strings,
as for note choice, yeah, you want to learn to play in more than one position of the pentatonic 'box' .. learn two or three or more positions .. then practice lines that connect them flowing up and down the neck between them at 'pivot' points ...
when you play against the chord progression, play long slow whole notes of every note (a coupla octaves) in the scale againt the chords .. get the sound of the notes in your ear .. then do the same with intervals of the scale ... think of the notes as words .... think of the intervals as phrases ... think of strung together intervals as sentences .. you have to get these building blocks in place before you can 'say' anything with your improvs
and dont be afraid to put some jazzy notes in and around the straight pentatonic scales .. this will spice up the jazziness of your improvs
keep pushing on .. you are on the right track
first - nice work .. that is a real good start to pentatonic based improv
do you have a backing track chord progression in Bb to work over? .. if not, record one and put it on infinite loop repeat ... the most MOST important thing about improvising is making the notes SAY something in the context of a chord progression ... if you are just noodling without context, you better be as good as eddie van halen (a la eruption) if you wnat to make some kind of musical statement ...
you need to leave out those low note double stops and heavy chord like things .. they really do not have a place in the idiom you are dipping your toe into at this time .. in the future, when you are a master of the domain, you wil be able to put whatever you want in and it will sound good .. but for now, you need to stick to the shallow end
do you only downpick? ... there is something about the attack of your notes that doesnt breath or bounce ... you really want to do some solid picking exercises up and down .... do not go for speed ... go for excellent finger tone and precision ... play scales with alternate pick strokes both straight and swung eigth notes ... i also think you need to play a bit slower until your right hand/left hand synchronization gets better .. you still hit a lot of flub notes cause you pick before your left hand is really in the proper position
i do not think your high notes sound 'chinese' on the recording ... if they sound that way live, roll the highs back on the tone control or amp EQ settings, use heavier gauge strings,
as for note choice, yeah, you want to learn to play in more than one position of the pentatonic 'box' .. learn two or three or more positions .. then practice lines that connect them flowing up and down the neck between them at 'pivot' points ...
when you play against the chord progression, play long slow whole notes of every note (a coupla octaves) in the scale againt the chords .. get the sound of the notes in your ear .. then do the same with intervals of the scale ... think of the notes as words .... think of the intervals as phrases ... think of strung together intervals as sentences .. you have to get these building blocks in place before you can 'say' anything with your improvs
and dont be afraid to put some jazzy notes in and around the straight pentatonic scales .. this will spice up the jazziness of your improvs
keep pushing on .. you are on the right track
cream123
JustAskinologist
Re: I need improvement in my improv
Thanks for the advice. I'll work on it. I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying with the "sentences" paragraph.
Thanks for the advice. I'll work on it. I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying with the "sentences" paragraph.
fingerace
New member
Re: I need improvement in my improv
hey Cream. I have the same problem with improvisation. I bought two DVDs, two Books and a voice recorded in order to get better.
I have exams right now so I only got the chance to check out only one of the books I got.
It's called "effortless mastery" "release the musician within - something like that". You should definately read it before you go and spend your money on DVDs and instructions books like I did. It doesn't mean that you will definately not need a good DVD like the "Jazz, anyone can improvise", but it will sure help you A LOT !
hey Cream. I have the same problem with improvisation. I bought two DVDs, two Books and a voice recorded in order to get better.
I have exams right now so I only got the chance to check out only one of the books I got.
It's called "effortless mastery" "release the musician within - something like that". You should definately read it before you go and spend your money on DVDs and instructions books like I did. It doesn't mean that you will definately not need a good DVD like the "Jazz, anyone can improvise", but it will sure help you A LOT !
tone4days
Heel Whacker
Re: I need improvement in my improv
ok - about the words, phrases, sentences bit ...
with an improvised piece of music, you have to say something ... hopefully something interesting ... just like we use words to construct phrases and phrases to construct sentences and sentences to construct a coherent (hopefully) paragraph, we use individual notes and the (interesting) intervals beween successive notes, and long strings of notes to covey our musical ideas ..
just like words convey their meaning in a context, so too do notes .. the context is the chord progression ... so you have to be able to hear what each note (word) sounds like against the chord .... then hear what each interval of two notes (one after the other) sounds like against the chord ...
so let's take a simple 12 bar Bb Blues (I7 - IV7 - V7) where you want to solo with the Bb minor pentatonic scale
play and record yourself playing the I7 chord and hold it with a long sustain ... do it a dozen times or so ... when you play it back, play and sustain the first note of the scale and deeply listen to how the note sounds against the chord ... on the next strum of the chord on the recording, play the second note of the scale and repeat ... do this for every note of the scale against the I7 chord ... do it over and over again until you feel and can 'predict' what it is going to sound like ... some intervals will sound very plain (e.g. roots, 8ves, and 5s) .... some will sound more interesting (e.g. 3s and 7s) ... and some will sound like ass ... learn these ...
then, replay the chords again, this time, instead of playing one note against each chord strum, play two notes ... first play the 1st and 2nd notes of the scael, then 1st and 3rd, then first and 4th, etc... all the wya up to the octave - and beyond! .. then play the 2nd note and the 3rd note , then the 2nd and 4th, etc ... all the way up ... then start at the octave and do the same working your way down .... get the sound of all these melodic intervals in your head .. think of them as little phrases in a sentence ...
then do the same for the IV7 chord .... then do the same for the V7 chord ... note taht some of the notes that sounded good against the I might not be so good against the IV or V, and vice versa
you want to get the sound of all the notes and intervals in your head against all the chords of the progression ... you want to be able to sing a random improvised melody against the chords then be able to play it ... start simple ... each phrase just a few notes ... remember to leave space, the same way you breath when you talk ...
then you can get into other melodic devices .. but you have to sart at the beginning
of course, do not leave out listening to lots of good players to pick up a sense of how to construct ideas for improv
start with BB King for minor pent scale ... not too flashy, but gets his point across with maximal impact in just a few notes
good luck
t4d
ok - about the words, phrases, sentences bit ...
with an improvised piece of music, you have to say something ... hopefully something interesting ... just like we use words to construct phrases and phrases to construct sentences and sentences to construct a coherent (hopefully) paragraph, we use individual notes and the (interesting) intervals beween successive notes, and long strings of notes to covey our musical ideas ..
just like words convey their meaning in a context, so too do notes .. the context is the chord progression ... so you have to be able to hear what each note (word) sounds like against the chord .... then hear what each interval of two notes (one after the other) sounds like against the chord ...
so let's take a simple 12 bar Bb Blues (I7 - IV7 - V7) where you want to solo with the Bb minor pentatonic scale
play and record yourself playing the I7 chord and hold it with a long sustain ... do it a dozen times or so ... when you play it back, play and sustain the first note of the scale and deeply listen to how the note sounds against the chord ... on the next strum of the chord on the recording, play the second note of the scale and repeat ... do this for every note of the scale against the I7 chord ... do it over and over again until you feel and can 'predict' what it is going to sound like ... some intervals will sound very plain (e.g. roots, 8ves, and 5s) .... some will sound more interesting (e.g. 3s and 7s) ... and some will sound like ass ... learn these ...
then, replay the chords again, this time, instead of playing one note against each chord strum, play two notes ... first play the 1st and 2nd notes of the scael, then 1st and 3rd, then first and 4th, etc... all the wya up to the octave - and beyond! .. then play the 2nd note and the 3rd note , then the 2nd and 4th, etc ... all the way up ... then start at the octave and do the same working your way down .... get the sound of all these melodic intervals in your head .. think of them as little phrases in a sentence ...
then do the same for the IV7 chord .... then do the same for the V7 chord ... note taht some of the notes that sounded good against the I might not be so good against the IV or V, and vice versa
you want to get the sound of all the notes and intervals in your head against all the chords of the progression ... you want to be able to sing a random improvised melody against the chords then be able to play it ... start simple ... each phrase just a few notes ... remember to leave space, the same way you breath when you talk ...
then you can get into other melodic devices .. but you have to sart at the beginning
of course, do not leave out listening to lots of good players to pick up a sense of how to construct ideas for improv
start with BB King for minor pent scale ... not too flashy, but gets his point across with maximal impact in just a few notes
good luck
t4d
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P
Peter Antal
Guest
Re: I need improvement in my improv
+1 to what T4D said. Silence is your friend - your licks will have more emphasis, if they're easy to locate in their musical context. You shouldn't say anything unless you want to say something important. It's not enough to know the "words" (scale notes) - you need to formulate phrases and sentences in order to speak a language.
Good luck!
+1 to what T4D said. Silence is your friend - your licks will have more emphasis, if they're easy to locate in their musical context. You shouldn't say anything unless you want to say something important. It's not enough to know the "words" (scale notes) - you need to formulate phrases and sentences in order to speak a language.
Good luck!
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Re: I need improvement in my improv
Learning to play jazz takes the best players in the world a lifetime to master. So if you miss your deadline for the audition then don't fret! Welcome to the world of Jazz! A style that kicks everybody's ars having the nerve to study it!
First, know the style. There are many styles of Jazz. There is no such thing as 1 jazz. You have Bebop, Blues Jazz, Cool/West Coast Jazz, Hard-Bop, Free Jazz, Latin Jazz, Bossa Nova, Samba, Fusion, and even (yuck!) Smooth Jazz. The list goes on! Each of these have their own stylistic characteristics. To improvise effectively you have to know the characteristics of the style you're working with.
It sounds like Blues Jazz is what you're dealing with. I would listen to Barney Kessel to get an idea of how feel and phrasing works within this style. But I will tell you ahead of time, that you probably will end up playing a swing feel.
A swing feel uses a triplet feel. That is two consecutive eight notes are played as though they were triplets. The duration of the first eight note takes up the 1st two beats of the triplet while the second eigth note takes the remaining beat on the up/back beat. So you hear a definate long-short-long-short feel when ever a series of eight notes are played. You can hear this feel whenever you listen to swing, bebop, or blues jazz. Practice playing all your scales or melodies that you know in this swing feel: Booo-da, Booo-da, Booo-da, Booo-daaaaa! Like that!
This is important because the swing feel is particularly tough on guitar. But once you have it down, it will help your playing tremedously and may lead to fresh ideas. Remember the ole saying, "It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!". Yet other styles I mentioned like the Latin flavored jazz styles and fusion don't swing at all. In those styles everything is played straight.
Once you get the feel then you're ready to tackle building phrases! Which is an art that pre-dates Mozart! There is a science to it! And once you know the science of phrasing you will never have to noodle again!
Learning to play jazz takes the best players in the world a lifetime to master. So if you miss your deadline for the audition then don't fret! Welcome to the world of Jazz! A style that kicks everybody's ars having the nerve to study it!
First, know the style. There are many styles of Jazz. There is no such thing as 1 jazz. You have Bebop, Blues Jazz, Cool/West Coast Jazz, Hard-Bop, Free Jazz, Latin Jazz, Bossa Nova, Samba, Fusion, and even (yuck!) Smooth Jazz. The list goes on! Each of these have their own stylistic characteristics. To improvise effectively you have to know the characteristics of the style you're working with.
It sounds like Blues Jazz is what you're dealing with. I would listen to Barney Kessel to get an idea of how feel and phrasing works within this style. But I will tell you ahead of time, that you probably will end up playing a swing feel.
A swing feel uses a triplet feel. That is two consecutive eight notes are played as though they were triplets. The duration of the first eight note takes up the 1st two beats of the triplet while the second eigth note takes the remaining beat on the up/back beat. So you hear a definate long-short-long-short feel when ever a series of eight notes are played. You can hear this feel whenever you listen to swing, bebop, or blues jazz. Practice playing all your scales or melodies that you know in this swing feel: Booo-da, Booo-da, Booo-da, Booo-daaaaa! Like that!
This is important because the swing feel is particularly tough on guitar. But once you have it down, it will help your playing tremedously and may lead to fresh ideas. Remember the ole saying, "It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!". Yet other styles I mentioned like the Latin flavored jazz styles and fusion don't swing at all. In those styles everything is played straight.
Once you get the feel then you're ready to tackle building phrases! Which is an art that pre-dates Mozart! There is a science to it! And once you know the science of phrasing you will never have to noodle again!
Re: I need improvement in my improv
Here's some stuff to inspire you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW8FJefw82k&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r15-A4Jaau4&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=476vNb6thyM&mode=related&search=
Practicing swing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBP2qnLBa2Q&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMdr59A9iqE&mode=related&search=
Here's some stuff to inspire you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW8FJefw82k&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r15-A4Jaau4&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=476vNb6thyM&mode=related&search=
Practicing swing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBP2qnLBa2Q&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMdr59A9iqE&mode=related&search=
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