Identify this Floyd Rose? Dean Razorback Cemetery Gates

wmachine

wmachine

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I've struck out on this in a couple other forums, including a Dean one.
So I'll give it a shot here.
This Dean is a 2011. I know earlier ones (2008-2010 at least) have Licensed Floyd Rose. I know newer ones have Floyd Rose Specials. Mine has this one. Totally void of visible identification. Odd?


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Re: Identify this Floyd Rose? Dean Razorback Cemetery Gates

OMG my 1991 Floyd Rose II seems in a better condition. Anyways if this still holds and hasn't got an stripped threads, this means its quite good. The block seems sexy. One thing I don't like is that saddles seem moved way too far. Maybe this was done to correct intonation due to collapsing wood around the posts?
 
Re: Identify this Floyd Rose? Dean Razorback Cemetery Gates

have you tried to call Dean and see if they can help answer your question.

it's clearly some licensed version, and a FR Special wouldn't be much of an upgrade. but FR does have specs on their site to help determine if the guitar (and the trem recess) would allow a genuine FR product on that guitar. I'd also consider swapping out that trem claw for one with a little more mass, like a regular one for a few $ or a brass one for about $10 (also comes with the screws) or a titanium one for less than $20 (also comes with screws)...FR sells all of those.

if you're looking to keep a brass sustain block on there, also consider the real FR brass blocks. otherwise, maybe check with FR to see if there are any warranty violations to putting a non-FR part on a brand new FR product. FR brass blocks are competitively prices and FR titanium blocks are more affordable as well.
 
Re: Identify this Floyd Rose? Dean Razorback Cemetery Gates

Yeah, contact dean.

Greekdude - The visual position of the saddles mean nothing. All of my floyded guitars have them at all different spots, it just depends whether the guitar is intonated or not.
 
Re: Identify this Floyd Rose? Dean Razorback Cemetery Gates

Kamanda~SD said:
Greekdude - The visual position of the saddles mean nothing. All of my floyded guitars have them at all different spots, it just depends whether the guitar is intonated or not.
Click to expand...

Assuming that a *good* setup should be made on all guitars, then seeing extreme positioning of the saddles (not that it definitely applies to the particular guitar in question) might ring a bell. If we assume that more than half of the guitars are badly intonated then they are in bad state either way and should be looked after.
 
Re: Identify this Floyd Rose? Dean Razorback Cemetery Gates

Thanks, guys. I have not contacted Dean, will try that. Intonation is right on the money, thus the staggered saddles. The whole FR has a nice solid feel to it, no complaints.

darthphineas said:
have you tried to call Dean and see if they can help answer your question.
it's clearly some licensed version, and a FR Special wouldn't be much of an upgrade. but FR does have specs on their site to help determine if the guitar (and the trem recess) would allow a genuine FR product on that guitar. I'd also consider swapping out that trem claw for one with a little more mass, like a regular one for a few $ or a brass one for about $10 (also comes with the screws) or a titanium one for less than $20 (also comes with screws)...FR sells all of those.

if you're looking to keep a brass sustain block on there, also consider the real FR brass blocks. otherwise, maybe check with FR to see if there are any warranty violations to putting a non-FR part on a brand new FR product. FR brass blocks are competitively prices and FR titanium blocks are more affordable as well.
Click to expand...
As far as I can tell, a FR Special would be a downgrade. Also, I'm not understanding some of your suggestions. I've checked out the FR parts at their site. I don't really see where the other claws are any more substantial. The mass looks to be about the same, except for the titanium that has even less mass. I don't undestand the the brass and titanium claw versions in theory even. It's not like the sustain block in the scheme of things. Why would I change a brass block for "real" FR block? I can understand larger, but....
I just bought the guitar used, so I don't believe there are any warranty concerns. Thanks for the input.

BTW, anyone know what the "BH" logo is?
 
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Re: Identify this Floyd Rose? Dean Razorback Cemetery Gates

wmachine said:
Thanks, guys. I have not contacted Dean, will try that. Intonation is right on the money, thus the staggered saddles. The whole FR has a nice solid feel to it, no complaints.


As far as I can tell, a FR Special would be a downgrade. Also, I'm not understanding some of your suggestions. I've checked out the FR parts at their site. I don't really see where the other claws are any more substantial. The mass looks to be about the same, except for the titanium that has even less mass. I don't undestand the the brass and titanium claw versions in theory even. It's not like the sustain block in the scheme of things. Why would I change a brass block for "real" FR block? I can understand larger, but....
I just bought the guitar used, so I don't believe there are any warranty concerns. Thanks for the input.

BTW, anyone know what the "BH" logo is?
Click to expand...

Man, I have this "inferior" "asian" "tiny" "pot metal" block in my "asian" Floyd Rose II in some plywood body Kramer 210, and this guitar sustains for days. Long story short, no plans for any trem upgrades in the future ever. If this sounds good then leave it. Which leads to the question : why would you want to make a thread for a trem that plays nice?
 
Re: Identify this Floyd Rose? Dean Razorback Cemetery Gates

I've checked out the FR parts at their site. I don't really see where the other claws are any more substantial. The mass looks to be about the same, except for the titanium that has even less mass.
Click to expand...

those two big round holes in the claw on yours is a reduction in mass.

the FR titanium claw is the same dimensions as the FR brass claw. the different metals have different results.



I don't undestand the the brass and titanium claw versions in theory even. It's not like the sustain block in the scheme of things.
Click to expand...

I'd have thought the same before I tried them both. every little bit adds up.



Why would I change a brass block for "real" FR block? I can understand larger, but....
Click to expand...

FR has big brass blocks. just saying there are some knock-offs and home brew blocks out there, and some people might prefer to know they are getting the genuine article as opposed to any company that might be using cheaper brass that's not as good. I talk about that a little bit HERE



if you can't confirm the BH logo via Google, Dean might be the best place to go for what they put on their guitars.
 
Re: Identify this Floyd Rose? Dean Razorback Cemetery Gates

^^ interesting article. Now a thorough sustain study before/after , low KPSI vs high KPSI , etc...
 
Re: Identify this Floyd Rose? Dean Razorback Cemetery Gates

greekdude said:
^^ interesting article. Now a thorough sustain study before/after , low KPSI vs high KPSI , etc...
Click to expand...

That's one of the several back-burner projects. Along with a run through of JB humbuckers from the different eras.
 
Re: Identify this Floyd Rose? Dean Razorback Cemetery Gates

wmachine said:
I've struck out on this in a couple other forums, including a Dean one.
So I'll give it a shot here.
This Dean is a 2011. I know earlier ones (2008-2010 at least) have Licensed Floyd Rose. I know newer ones have Floyd Rose Specials. Mine has this one. Totally void of visible identification. Odd?


View attachment 76022


View attachment 76023


View attachment 76024
Click to expand...

Hmm, to me it looks a bit like the licensed Floyd that was being put on Peavey Wolfgangs...
 
Re: Identify this Floyd Rose? Dean Razorback Cemetery Gates

Used guitars with parts held on by screws always rule out the "ask the maker" option. Dean can tell you what came on it, up to a point, and if they had several hardware options, they might not have accurate records readily available to answer your questions.

Remove the trem completely and see if there are marks on the underside of the baseplate.

It looks like an 80's OFR collar that requires a wrench, but Ibanez saddles. Could be a mutt, could be a factory arrangement (except for the block). Without maker's marks, you simply will not be able to tell for sure.
 
Re: Identify this Floyd Rose? Dean Razorback Cemetery Gates

didn't see anything in the OP to indicate it's a pre-owned guitar

Dean can tell you what came on it, up to a point
Click to expand...

exactly. they can clarify if it came on that guitar or not. if it did, they will know what it is.
 
Re: Identify this Floyd Rose? Dean Razorback Cemetery Gates

darthphineas said:
those two big round holes in the claw on yours is a reduction in mass.
the FR titanium claw is the same dimensions as the FR brass claw. the different metals have different results.
I'd have thought the same before I tried them both. every little bit adds up.
FR has big brass blocks. just saying there are some knock-offs and home brew blocks out there, and some people might prefer to know they are getting the genuine article as opposed to any company that might be using cheaper brass that's not as good. I talk about that a little bit HERE
if you can't confirm the BH logo via Google, Dean might be the best place to go for what they put on their guitars.
Click to expand...


Very interesting, thanks. I did check out your link, too. I've been in metals business for over 42 years now, and I'm quite familiar with metallurgical properties. So I can understand and also attest to the validity of your objective observations. Of course none of my background relates to sustain and resonance. So I'm learning how that relates now. I now see why just having a brass block does not mean it is good. I wish I knew what that block really is. I struck out with Google. I could check it for hardness, but not tensile. But for what it is worth to screw around with it, I could just replace it.
I can also see where strength and sustain are the 2 driving properties. Of course sustain is not really a property, so what really is it? The ability to conduct sound waves? And can that be measured? Fortunately, high tensile and resonance pretty much go together. Yes, there is a misconception that stainless is stronger. Generally not, as the alloying element are not high strength.
Anyway, it seems to me that the farther away you get from the strings, the "less important" the conduction is. I'm thinking that as it relates to the springs vs the claw. Since springs are by nature high strengh, is there no concern about their effect on sustain?
As usual, more answers bring more questions. BTW, I've been a Brad Gillis fan since just before NightRanger.
 
Re: Identify this Floyd Rose? Dean Razorback Cemetery Gates

DrNewcenstein said:
Used guitars with parts held on by screws always rule out the "ask the maker" option. Dean can tell you what came on it, up to a point, and if they had several hardware options, they might not have accurate records readily available to answer your questions.

Remove the trem completely and see if there are marks on the underside of the baseplate.

It looks like an 80's OFR collar that requires a wrench, but Ibanez saddles. Could be a mutt, could be a factory arrangement (except for the block). Without maker's marks, you simply will not be able to tell for sure.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the observtions. Considering it isn't the usual licensed ones I've seen on it up the the year before, and it's not a Special that came on newer ones, the mutt possiblity becomes better. Still strange that there is no external id. Not used to seeing *nothing*.
I'm not yet inclined to take it all apart, with the new strings and my limited time right now, I'm just going to play it and learn what I can for now.
 
Re: Identify this Floyd Rose? Dean Razorback Cemetery Gates

The saddles look like an Original Edge, but the baseplate isn't Ibanez. Gotoh also have similar saddles and a similar baseplate...
That trem block looks to be aftermarket so the whole unit could be a heinz 57 of sorts.
The BH logo is most likely the name or company who machined the trem block, but I couldnt find any info on that.
If it plays good and sounds good and holds tune then go for it!
 
Re: Identify this Floyd Rose? Dean Razorback Cemetery Gates

I was going to say, it looks similar to a Gotoh unit, but not sure.
 
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