If you can't level frets yourself, don't buy a new guitar....

Mr. B

Mr. B

New member
I don't know how many guitars and basses I have seen over the last couple of years that had extremely high frets causing buzzing and dead spots somewhere on the fretboard. I'm not just talking about entry level guitars either. Brand new Gibson Les Pauls, SG Standards, US-made Fender strats and Teles, and also Squiers, Schecters, Ibanez, MusicMan/Sterling, and Epiphone. I've seen fewer on Jacksons and PRS's SE line than others, but I have still seen a couple. It seems I have rarely picked one up lately that did not have some problem with the frets. Are companies unable or unwilling to even try to sell a finished product in 2019?
 
Re: If you can't level frets yourself, don't buy a new guitar....

Ive had my Luthier do fret levels on all my guitars new & old.

After he did the first one the difference was so dramatic i did them all.
 
Re: If you can't level frets yourself, don't buy a new guitar....

I think many new players don't know anything about setting up a guitar for years after they start playing. They learn on whatever they have. Difficulty in playing might even stop new players from continuing.
 
Re: If you can't level frets yourself, don't buy a new guitar....

Buy Japanese or you only have yourself to blame (well, also the Americans, Koreans, Mexicans, or Chinese who made it so haphazardly...but mostly just yourself)
 
Re: If you can't level frets yourself, don't buy a new guitar....

As a luthier, I can attest this is a real problem. Generally the cheaper guitars are the worst. But I’ve made brand new expensive guitars play better after fret leveling.

There’s a few reasons for this. Fret work is labor intensive. That cost money. But even with more expensive guitars. You see this with Gibson. Things like “faded” finishes is their way to not have to pay a worker to buff a guitar.

The other thing is wood moves. Factory guitars are built so quickly that sometimes the wood wasn’t done moving.

I find that even factory guitars with good fretwork often play better after they are leveled again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Re: If you can't level frets yourself, don't buy a new guitar....

You are correct about uncured wood being a culprit. I have done a complete fret level on a couple of low end guitars only to have them returned for another (very much needed) fret level in the same year. I just finished leveling two high frets on a brand new Sterling Ray24 bass today. That isn't the low end model. The frets were so high that the entire E string was practically dead from the 14th fret down.

I sponsor a student guitar club at our school, and do work on student guitars often. I work on guitars for free, and over the years, I have invested in many leveling beams and fret files to help improve the playability of my own guitars as well as those of students and friends. I never expected to be wearing out multiple diamond fret files on higher end Gibsons and Fenders like I have lately.

Thing is, 99 percent of buyers out there don't have the tools or skill to correct bad fret work, and it is rendering guitars costing a thousand dollars or more pretty useless if you want to learn to play well. I just feel sorry for people buying new guitars now. Odds are against buyers getting one with no issues.
 
Re: If you can't level frets yourself, don't buy a new guitar....

I've noticed most G&Ls have a very decent fretwork out of the box, normally able to get low, even action across the fretboard with little buzz.

Same with Chapman and Reverend guitars.

Any resources for us that don't know how to dress frets? I'd love to learn.
 
Re: If you can't level frets yourself, don't buy a new guitar....

Working on guitars is fun because it means that with my own skill I can have a guitar that is ten times better then the exact same guitar as the guy next to me, even if I keep it stock.
 
Re: If you can't level frets yourself, don't buy a new guitar....

Chistopher said:
Working on guitars is fun because it means that with my own skill I can have a guitar that is ten times better then the exact same guitar as the guy next to me, even if I keep it stock.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I was looking at a used guitar the other day, and checked the relief and neck (for twist), but didn't even play it. The salesguy said, "Don't you want to check fretwork", and I explained that I didn't care; I was going to level, crown and polish regardless. :)

Larry
 
Re: If you can't level frets yourself, don't buy a new guitar....

Mr. B said:
I don't know how many guitars and basses I have seen over the last couple of years that had extremely high frets causing buzzing and dead spots somewhere on the fretboard. I'm not just talking about entry level guitars either. Brand new Gibson Les Pauls, SG Standards, US-made Fender strats and Teles, and also Squiers, Schecters, Ibanez, MusicMan/Sterling, and Epiphone. I've seen fewer on Jacksons and PRS's SE line than others, but I have still seen a couple. It seems I have rarely picked one up lately that did not have some problem with the frets. Are companies unable or unwilling to even try to sell a finished product in 2019?
Click to expand...

Every Carvin/ Kiesel guitar I have ever built were perfection in the fret work out of the box so---.
 
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Re: If you can't level frets yourself, don't buy a new guitar....

Thread title is a bit much :) ... but who doesnt negotiate a full setup and any fret corrections before a new purchase anyways. I mean if you are experienced to recognize the issues make the store luthier dress it up AFTER negotiating on price.

And if you dont know, ask the store to double check -if its any store worthy of doing business with long term theyll recognize an issue for a young player.
 
Re: If you can't level frets yourself, don't buy a new guitar....

fret levelling is surprisingly easy, you just need a few essential tools.
1/ flat diamond coated sharpening stone, people used to use the stone ones, but these will wear after a couple of uses, only use the extra fine edge
2/ crowning file, again diamond coated, StewMac has some good ones, or go the traditional 3 corner file with the edges removed
3/ a fat chisel shape Sharpie/Marking pen
4/ a dremel with a buffing wheel and the fine white jewellers rouge..
5/ some of those stainless metal fret protectors that StewMac sells.

First make sure the neck has no twists or bows, adjust these out first.
then run a line over each fret, the chisel shaped marking pens are great, only one stroke required
now get your diamond sharpening stone (the longer these are the better) and proceed to run it up and down the neck in long strokes
you will soon see where the low frets are, as they will stil be covered in the marking pen..
also its not unusual for a particular fret to be high at one end and low at the other
keep stroking the diamond stone until all the frets are showing metal.
now.
remark the frets again with the marking pen
crown the frets using your preferred tools.
you should be left with a thin black line right through the centre of the fret.
now get your dremel and buff , and using the fret protector, apply rouge to the wheel, (dremel on full speed)
make sure you really get a lot of the rouge on.
start to buff.
the frets will shine up like new, and also remove the dressing marks left by the stone and the crowning file..

tip..
you need at least 2 of the protectors, leave one as nature intended, but cut the sides off the other with a sharp pair of tinsnips to use on the upper regesiter frets..


I'm sure there must be something on you tube or other media about this..
I learned a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away... before the interwebz..
 
Re: If you can't level frets yourself, don't buy a new guitar....

Yup. The number one difference in quality between a guitar that feels expensive, and one that feels cheap, is in the frets and nuts. You can improve almost any cheap guitar (any many mid level and expensive ones) by having the frets leveled, crowned, end dressed and polished, and a new nut fabricated, right off the bat.

I think a lot of these companies think that "PLEK" is synonymous with "Lazy Maker." PLEKs are great, because they do the time consuming grunt work. But it still takes a human to come in afterward and get things perfect...and the PLEK breeds manufacturing laziness/cheapness in that regard. It has happened at G&L since they got a PLEK, and it happened big time at Gibson when they got one. Fender's reissue and Custom Shop instruments have seemed to maintain great (or at least very acceptable) fret work IME, and the standard production ones are OK (not great). You can take a MIM Fender or a Squier and make it feel as good as or better than a vintage reissue, because the main difference in playability on the MIM and Squier guitars comes from the frets and the nut.

Every Gibson I've ever owned from the Henry J. years has needed a major fret crowning, end rounding, and polish – and most, a new nut, and at the very least some nut refinements. That said, the 2019s I have played so far have been improved in this area, and I like the new lineup and its specs.

IMO, it helps to be able to do it yourself, but for only about $125–$150 total for this fret work and a new nut, it's not an exorbitant fee to not have to spend the time bothering. I just consider it part of the cost of buying a cheap guitar (or a Henry J. era Gibson).
 
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Re: If you can't level frets yourself, don't buy a new guitar....

Peter Crossley said:
fret levelling is surprisingly easy, you just need a few essential tools.
1/ flat diamond coated sharpening stone, people used to use the stone ones, but these will wear after a couple of uses, only use the extra fine edge
2/ crowning file, again diamond coated, StewMac has some good ones, or go the traditional 3 corner file with the edges removed
3/ a fat chisel shape Sharpie/Marking pen
4/ a dremel with a buffing wheel and the fine white jewellers rouge..
5/ some of those stainless metal fret protectors that StewMac sells.

First make sure the neck has no twists or bows, adjust these out first.
then run a line over each fret, the chisel shaped marking pens are great, only one stroke required
now get your diamond sharpening stone (the longer these are the better) and proceed to run it up and down the neck in long strokes
you will soon see where the low frets are, as they will stil be covered in the marking pen..
also its not unusual for a particular fret to be high at one end and low at the other
keep stroking the diamond stone until all the frets are showing metal.
now.
remark the frets again with the marking pen
crown the frets using your preferred tools.
you should be left with a thin black line right through the centre of the fret.
now get your dremel and buff , and using the fret protector, apply rouge to the wheel, (dremel on full speed)
make sure you really get a lot of the rouge on.
start to buff.
the frets will shine up like new, and also remove the dressing marks left by the stone and the crowning file..

tip..
you need at least 2 of the protectors, leave one as nature intended, but cut the sides off the other with a sharp pair of tinsnips to use on the upper regesiter frets..


I'm sure there must be something on you tube or other media about this..
I learned a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away... before the interwebz..
Click to expand...

Yep, that's the way.
 
Re: If you can't level frets yourself, don't buy a new guitar....

Chistopher said:
Working on guitars is fun because it means that with my own skill I can have a guitar that is ten times better then the exact same guitar as the guy next to me, even if I keep it stock.
Click to expand...

That’s how I started out doing it for other people. Plus a subpar refret job I had done back in the 70s that I had to fix myself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Re: If you can't level frets yourself, don't buy a new guitar....

I've always had others do this, and I appreciate the very cool instructions provided. I'd want to be around someone who does it a few times before I tried it myself. How long does it usually take?
 
Re: If you can't level frets yourself, don't buy a new guitar....

Depends on what tools you have. Radiused sanding beams and diamond fret files speed things up considerably. If you are doing an entire neck and not just one high fret, it can take a couple of hours. The leveling is the fastest part. Its the crowning and polishing that takes so long.
 
Re: If you can't level frets yourself, don't buy a new guitar....

PRS core series. Wood dried to 6% or less. Neck takes about 30 days to complete. Result = neck no move. Actually give a crap about installing the frets correctly and you have a guitar with no problemos. Only other guitar I've ever played that was in the ball park in the fret board department was an ancient Carvin DC127 that I picked up local for 200 bucks. The secret is the wood. All the fretwork in the world means f-all if the neck moves.
 
Re: If you can't level frets yourself, don't buy a new guitar....



I just dropped off my Les Paul Custom for a re-fret. Can't wait to get it back.
 
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