I'm Sorry Guys

Empty Pockets

BadHairDayologist
But cheap guitars are just ****ing cheap.

Workin at a guitar shop every day is awesome because of the incredible, real-deal guitars (the ones that are at least $600 and usually retail around a grand). Custom shop pieces, like 70% of the production Gibsons and USA Fenders, and even some mid-range ESP LTD's can be really incredible guitars.

Some guitars are just CRAP though. And I, as a salesman who works on commission, and who's commission on a piece is TAKEN AWAY if that piece is returned, am more than happy to tell you which pieces are crap and which aren't.

Look, man, there aren't any BRAND NEW FACTORY SEALED NEW guitars that are worth a **** for less than $200. I'm really sorry but that's a fact. You WILL NOT be satisfied with a Squier Bullet or an Epiphone Special II. Those things suck. Sometimes you can get something used that's technically a good deal (like the used Dean ML-X at my shop that came with a hardshell case for $150...a case for an ML would cost $150 new so i say it's a hardshell case that comes with a cheap guitar)

Sometimes, every now and then, you can get an awesome deal for $300-400. Usually this is an obscure used guitar that isn't very popular, or something that's been in the shop for 2 years and is on super-ultra closeout special tagged 20% below cost. These are scores and as a salesman who only makes money off of satisfied customers, i'll show you these first. Of course, as a customer, you probably noticed me steering you away from $100 stuff and towards the more expensive stuff so that I can make more money.

WRONG. I'm trying to do YOU a favor. If you leave my shop with a brand new $150 guitar, you're gonna come back and spend $50 to get the neck straight. You'll start breaking strings and after two or three $20 string changes, you'll find out it's because the bridge on your POS has a bur that needs to be filed down. A few weeks after a $45 tech fee (plus $5 for new strings) your electronics will stop working and you'll spend another $45 bench fee plus $20 in parts putting new switches and pots in there. Then you're gonna learn about pickups.

So you've now spent $400 making your ****ty guitar somewhat managable, but it's still just a polished turd and has absolutely no resale value. Great job.

All I'm saying is, guys, don't be surprised when you buy cheap crap and get what you payed for. Just like you shouldn't be surprised when you actually save up the money required to get something awesome, and find out how awesome that thing is. In this industry, a lot of the time, you get what you paid for.

Epiphones, Squiers, most mexi Fenders and budget Ibz's and LTD's are intentionally crappy. The companies build the sub-$300 guitars so that you'll think you're saving money and end up spending more. Why would you care if your cheap crap is worth a **** when what you're really trying to sell is in the $1500+ region?

I think the bare minimum amount to spend on a decent, giggable, playable guitar is $500...and that's if you come in during the right sale, lookin for a clearance piece. The used market is totally different but if you want anything that sounds good and is gonna stay in tune, you wanna be at least halfway to a grand, and preferably closer.
 
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Re: I'm Sorry Guys

Oh the rants I could write about repairs, care, and general maintenance.
 
Re: I'm Sorry Guys

Let's hear 'em man.

This is the thread to say everything you always wanted to say but never did. That's why the subject line is the apology...feelings are out of the way; let's get down to brass tax.
 
Re: I'm Sorry Guys

I like my three Dean Vendetta XMs. Paid $70 each shipped.

Necks are fine, the bridge is actually ok, and I popped out the humbuckers and installed a Dimarzio bridge humbucker in each one. They all sound great.

I took one, sanded it down, filled in the neck humbucker cavity, and painted it. No worries about messing it up, as it was a sub-$100 guitar. It turned out ok (aside from the clear coat being a bit messed up, but I'll probably redo it later), so now I've got the second one in the basement getting the neck pickup cavity filled.
 
Re: I'm Sorry Guys

After getting my awesome custom Warmoth/Carvin guitar,nothing less will do. I`m finished with all that crap import stuff. If i ever get another guitar it will be either a Warmoth or a Carvin or a mix of both like i have now. USA all the way baby!
 
Re: I'm Sorry Guys

I wouldn't say that all Epiphones are gargage. I've got a couple that I'm pretty happy with. They're not bottom of the line models tho. Anything with a $200 MSRP is probably going to be pretty pathetic. All that aside, my next acquisition will probably be a Warmoth build.
 
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About time some one said it. Its all about the money.

although the other day I got a new guitar for $400 with a hardshell case!!
It's a dean split tail and was discontued it was like $900 but they were blowing them out.
imo some makers are better then others
 
Re: I'm Sorry Guys

I dunno ... I've played $200 guitars that felt amazing, and $2,000 guitars that felt cheap.

Generally you get what you pay for, but not always.
 
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I wouldn't say that all Epiphones are gargage. I've got a couple that I'm pretty happy with. They're not bottom of the line models tho. Anything with a $200 MSRP is probably going to be pretty pathetic. All that aside, my next acquisition will probably be a Warmoth build.

yeah anything with list price under 200... no thanks.



as a general high end fender user, i can honestly say: squier sucks donkey ass.
 
Re: I'm Sorry Guys

I think most import guitars completely covered with thick poly finishes are duds. My Epiphone Les Paul Custom that looks so nice? It sounds dull and dead. Bone nut, nice pickups, CTS pots, TonePros bridge? It still sounds cold. It has no soul. I want to take a sanding block to that hard, shiny poly -- that will never wear through natural causes -- and knock it down so I can feel the wood vibrate. Should I? I paid $50 more for my Faded Flying V, which ****s all over it and only needed a bone nut and a good setup to become completely awesome.
 
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Alright, listen up. Just because there's the saying "tie the strings on", It doesn't actually ****ing mean tie the strings on. Fender style headstock? 2 1/2 wraps downward for bass strings, 4 for treble strings. Your tuning problems don't come from your tuners slipping (this day in age, VERY few sealed gear tuners "slip"), nor do your tuning problems originate because you don't have a sharp knife edge on your tremelo. They come from you literally tying the strings on, and from being a cheapass and not having your nut properly cut. Tilted headstocks? Follow the degree of pitch on the headstock. Simple as that, tuning woes solved forever.

Don't bring in your cheap ass Chinese epiphone les paul for a "bad ass setup" because it's your "main player" and beats out anything else you've ever played. If it did, you wouldn't be needing a fret level, new nut, complete setup, replacing of the electronics, that loose binding glued back in place, replacing that inlay that popped out, and to adjust the intonation. Sell that **** to the tourists, I'm not buying it.

I've worked on instruments day in and day out for years, I know quality when I see it. I know that place of origin has no factor on quality, quality has a factor on quality. Jade mandolins for example, come from China, in one of the major factories out there. But, all the way around, they're an amazing product. They also sell for more than what my car KBB's for. Stagg stratocaster copies also come from that same factory. And I've yet to run into one that I can repair the neck on, that's actually worth it. They MAP for less than a box of 300 diapers from Costco.

I'm sick and tired of hearing "Recording King beats Martin", "Epiphone beats Gibson", "Squier beats Fender", and on and ****ing on. Do you really think that? Recording King beats Martin? Really? When's the last time you picked up a D-28 and saw a glue run down the middle of the top? When's the last time you picked up a MIA Fender Strat and said "well, with a fret level and recrown, and a **** good setup, this might play okay."? Are they good values for the money? Sometimes. For example, the new Squier Bullet for 129 with a trem. I think that's a great guitar to turn into a git you could throw around and not give a **** about. I certainly wouldn't treat an Am Dlx like that.

I don't claim to be better than your usual tech. I'm not trying to be. I'm trying to be the best **** tech I can be. Don't come in telling me your horror story about the guy down at GC who asked what kind of strings you wanted then disappeared when you were getting a setup done. That's your ****ing fault, because you're "just a player" and refuse to become educated on your instrument, proper care and maintenance, and assume that any guy with a screwdriver can do the job. Sorry, I feel no sympathy for you. I used to hang out with a few well known repair techs in the Dallas area. We'd usually meet up once a week for beers at a small out of the way bar, and discuss anything we had going on that week. Constantly, we were bringing up "I got another guy asking about your work today" to each other. That's good, it meant people were trying to find out about who the **** is actually working on something so close, such as an instrument. Call it a tool all you want, but you know **** good and well if it were to become in disrepair, you'd be heartbroken. Look me in the eye and tell me I'm lying.

I'm soooooo ****ing tired of hearing from everyone "yeah, I'm kinda a tech". No you're not. Because you learned how to adjust the intonation on your strat and know what size allen wrench you need for your saddle screws doesn't make you a tech. You can tell me you're a tech when you can figure out WHY the action became too high to play over the years on a telecaster with no changes done to it. You can call yourself a tech when you're able to put a perfect crown on frets using a 3 sided triangular file instead of cheaping out and using a crowning file.

Don't get me wrong guys, if you're an at home dude, just wanting to do it on your own stuff, then that's fine. But don't run around calling yourself a tech because you have a "bench" (your bedroom desk doesn't count) and read a few articles online.

I'm walking away from this before my blood pressure goes through the roof.
 
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I teach an after school rock guitar class at my high school, so I see dozens of new students with the cheap guitars they got for Christmas. Some of them are fairly playable, and with a pickup swap even sound good. What gets me is number of students who come in interested in playing mainly metal, who have been talked into a 3-single coil strat guitar by the music store salesman. They later "trade up" to a Fender Tele, which the store suggested, and still can't figure out why their guitar sucks at playing metal. Plus, they don't want to spend any money on a good amp, because amps don't contribute to tone......right?

I had to buy 4 guitars for our guitar club for those who wanted to learn but had no guitar. I tried every cheap guitar on the market, and ended up with 4 Squier standard tele specials (1 humbucker, 1 single coil) I found on sale. Fixed bridge, so they are easy to keep in tune and restring. Bridge humbucker actually sounds similar to a Duncan Distortion. Neck single coil does a very acceptable strat tone, and sounds good clean. Controls are simple to use and easy to do rewiring and repairs on.

I always suggest the VOX VT series modeling amps for a first amp since it can do a bit of everything fairly well, and comes with lots of effects to play with. The Roland Cube series, and Line-6 stuff isn't bad for beginners either. Wish we had had any of those when I was learning years ago.

I wish more salesmen would talk beginners into what they NEED instead of what they THINK they want. We'd have a lot more beginners continuing to play.

I agree with your points, and with the recent price hikes, I'd say a dependable gig quality guitar would start at around $600 +.
 
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Hey Bean, I do some stuff on my own guitars, but I've said on here before and to anyone that asks me..I am NOT a guitar tech....and I will NEVER be a luthier. But I know how to adjust a neck, I know how the trussrods work, I know several ways to do an intonation setup (all but one I learned on here). I can change pups and do "some" wiring setups...certainly not all.... But I do enjoy it. I have several "Cheap" under $500 guitars. They won't outplay a Martin, or an AM Std Strat. I do NOT play out anymore and I have fun tinkering with what guitars I have. I DO respect you guys that have spent years and years learning your craft. I've been a diesel tech for almost 42 years....I can probably fix a diesel truck better than some "at-home" guys...maybe not as good as some....

You've taught me a lot on here and when we've e-mailed, I appreciate all the real guitar techs. I also appreciate them helping me learn to do my "hobby" better.. So Thank you and everyone on this forum. I learn new stuff every day from everyone of you.

-dave
 
Re: I'm Sorry Guys

I think most import guitars completely covered with thick poly finishes are duds. My Epiphone Les Paul Custom that looks so nice? It sounds dull and dead. Bone nut, nice pickups, CTS pots, TonePros bridge? It still sounds cold. It has no soul. I want to take a sanding block to that hard, shiny poly -- that will never wear through natural causes -- and knock it down so I can feel the wood vibrate. Should I? I paid $50 more for my Faded Flying V, which ****s all over it and only needed a bone nut and a good setup to become completely awesome.

is THAT whats wrong with my friends les paul custom?

it always seems DULL and dark.
 
Re: I'm Sorry Guys

You know what grinds my gears? When people complain about the "quality control" on Brand X guitars. They almost never cite even a single example of what they're talking about. "Brand X sucks. They're overpriced. They're junk. My Acme Model Z plays better and sounds better than a Custom Shop Brand X (now that I've swapped out the stock pups for a DD and a Tone Zone reverse zebra with an A8 magnet, although my roommate's friend put a ding in it when he was trying to imitate that guy from Blink-182 and jumped off my dresser and hit the body on my bed. I was pretty mad but I said he could make it up to me by doing the next beer run by himself... (Jessie walks away, slits wrists.)
 
Re: I'm Sorry Guys

Hey Bean, I do some stuff on my own guitars, but I've said on here before and to anyone that asks me..I am NOT a guitar tech....and I will NEVER be a luthier. But I know how to adjust a neck, I know how the trussrods work, I know several ways to do an intonation setup (all but one I learned on here). I can change pups and do "some" wiring setups...certainly not all.... But I do enjoy it. I have several "Cheap" under $500 guitars. They won't outplay a Martin, or an AM Std Strat. I do NOT play out anymore and I have fun tinkering with what guitars I have. I DO respect you guys that have spent years and years learning your craft. I've been a diesel tech for almost 42 years....I can probably fix a diesel truck better than some "at-home" guys...maybe not as good as some....

You've taught me a lot on here and when we've e-mailed, I appreciate all the real guitar techs. I also appreciate them helping me learn to do my "hobby" better.. So Thank you and everyone on this forum. I learn new stuff every day from everyone of you.

-dave

Dave, please keep in mind, I wasn't speaking about anyone on this forum. All my problems come from d-bags who've walked into my shop either talking **** or wanting to snuggle right up next to me because mom's pissed that he dropped the soldering iron on the carpet and kicked him out for a few hours.
 
Re: I'm Sorry Guys

we all know epiphones and mim fenders and so on are crap, we dont usually buy them out of choice.

Exactly. Nobody buys them simply out of burning desire; money is always a factor. If it weren't, I'd buy Epiphones and MIM Strats just so I could smash them. I'd buy up nice USA Fenders and Gibsons to wallpaper my mansion and donate to poor kids who want to learn guitar.
 
Re: I'm Sorry Guys

we all know epiphones and mim fenders and so on are crap, we dont usually buy them out of choice.

True, and a lot of the **** talked about the higher end stuff who play the lower end stuff comes from folks trying to talk themselves into loving their guitar.
 
Re: I'm Sorry Guys

Exactly. Nobody buys them simply out of burning desire; money is always a factor. If it weren't, I'd buy Epiphones and MIM Strats just so I could smash them. I'd buy up nice USA Fenders and Gibsons to wallpaper my mansion and donate to poor kids who want to learn guitar.
lol that made me laugh
 
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