I’m still not happy with the Mockingbird’s tone.

[MikeS]

I’m still not happy with the Mockingbird’s tone.

Facts:
Maple neck through. Nato (like mahogany) wings. 24 fret Ebony fretboard. Tune-O-Matic bridge

The guitar is very bright, resonates well (but not great), but has an otherwise good natural tone with a crisp “snap” to it. Trouble is finding a pair of pickups for it.

Pickup history:
BSDM (stock) pickups. VERY hot (~18k bridge and ~17k neck), ceramic. Very grainy sound, unnatural, and bright. Very harsh pickups.

CCb and Demon in neck. Output better. Demon too aggressive in the neck. CC tonally better (rolled off highs), but I needed a bigger and tighter bottom end. The CC was too spongy for my tastes.

498T/490R. Output is better still (especially in neck). This set is much better in this axe than it was in the LP. The set has been in there awhile, and the tone is close, but still not perfect. The 498T is still a bit strong on the top end for this guitar. I could use something a little sweeter in the neck than the 490R
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So, I’m thinking of going lower with the output of the pickups (high output + bright is not a combo that I like at all). For the bridge I’m looking for something with lighter top end with strong mids and tighter, more articulate lows. In the neck I’m looking for something a little sweeter and open. I like neck pickups to have a vowel-like quality to them.

For new pickups I’m considering a Blues Trembucker or a C5, but have no experience with either one. On paper, the C5 seems to be in between the 498T and the CC. It’s also A5, which I tend to prefer over any other magnet type. In the neck, maybe a 59, although I’m worried about it being too bright in a maple neck through. I really want to find a tone I like out of this guitar. It plays very well and it would be a shame to have to let it go because I can’t find the right set of pickups for it.

Thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions?

 

[JeffB]

Re: I’m still not happy with the Mockingbird’s tone.

Re: I’m still not happy with the Mockingbird’s tone.

Dimarzio Super Distortion in the bridge.

BIG low end, big mids, clear but not overly bright or trebly top end. If you are gonna do death metal..it may not be articulate enough but for anything less gain than that, ti works great. I put up a clip of them in my space ace, the other day. Yes it says "SuperDistortion" in the name. It's NOT that hot. 30 years ago it was. It has less output than a CC or Custom going by DC resistance. It's really about the same as a Custom to my ears (output that is). Crunches hard and is very open/dynamic and vocal with lower gain (i.e. 2203 levels or less), and gets a little compressed with real high gain and leads cry/sing.Should balance out and beef up that axe quite well.

FWIW, my old early 80s Bit$h I had (briefly) had a SuperDs in the bridge and I assume a DiMArzio PAF.. I couldn't get used to the 30 million knobs and switches and preamps, and windshield wipers on it, but it had a HUGE fat sound.


For a Duncan..hmmm....I don't know..prolly the Blues or AP2 is your best choice in what you have not tried.The other Duncans PAFs are fairly to quite bright/trebly. C5 is neat but lacks mids...which it sounds like you need.

Neck...If you'd like a little sweeter than a 490, I'd prolly go AP2 with Duncans or PAF PRO if ya want that vowel sound..though the PAF pro is not what I'd call "sweet". Air Classic would be your best choice w/ DiMarzio for "sweet".

 

[dasfonzie]

Re: I’m still not happy with the Mockingbird’s tone.

Re: I’m still not happy with the Mockingbird’s tone.

I like The Alnico Pro 2 HBs I have in my Strat. Low output, but still have some serious balls. It's the same pups Slash uses, so that gives you an idea.
I like the way they sound in my Strat though. Very clear and defined, not overly bright at all like I expected.

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: I’m still not happy with the Mockingbird’s tone.

Re: I’m still not happy with the Mockingbird’s tone.

The Super Distortion is a pretty cool pickup. I have an old one that came in my '81 Hamer. It sounds big and fat in everything I've put it in. The low end isn't quite as tight as on, say, a Custom, but it is tighter than the CC. It has thick lower mids and a round top end. Looking at the specs, it seems that the PATB would be tighter and have more high end representation.

Another pickup you might want to look at would e the Rio Grande BBQ. I havent tried it personally, but a lot of people describe it as having a big low end with smooth highs.

As far as a neck pickup, the APH I had in my maple neck thru Carvin was good, but, to my ear, it needed a bit more push in the lows and low mids (because of the 24 frets). I replaced it with a Pearly Gates bridge pickup rated at 8.4k. It worked really well. My neck position is now big, thick, and smooth with great string seperation and clarity. I would suggest going with a low resistance Duncan bridge PAF copy for the neck. I think that an 8.5k Seth in zebra wouldmatch up really well with a Super Distortion. It would give you a big, aggressive sound from the bridge with a thick, creamy, vocal tone from the neck while giving you an overall old school vibe.

For a more modern character, a PGb/BBQ set might be right up your alley.

 

[MikeS]

Re: I’m still not happy with the Mockingbird’s tone.

Re: I’m still not happy with the Mockingbird’s tone.

Thanks for the replies, dudes.

Jeff – Rest assured I’m not playing death metal. I usually pick up the bird when I’m in a classic metal mood. I don’t get much more modern with metal than Metallica or Megadeth. My tones are generally very Marshally (even the models I use levitate around the Marshall sound).

I’m kind of shying away from A2 with this axe. Like I said, I’m typically an A5 guy anyway, and the type of playing I do on this axe seems to prefer A5 as well (more so in the bridge position than the neck). I may start to really consider the Super Distortion. I’m still not sure about the neck, though.

Benjy, the PGb in the neck does sound interesting. How compatible are Duncans and Dimarzios together? Is it as simple as reversing a couple leads, or are we talking about magnet flips, too?

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: I’m still not happy with the Mockingbird’s tone.

Re: I’m still not happy with the Mockingbird’s tone.

I had the Super D paired with the APHn in my Hamer for a long time., and now have it in my Lester paired with a PGn All I did was reverse the leads on the Super D. I don't do any splitting with it, so I don't know how that'll work.

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: I’m still not happy with the Mockingbird’s tone.

Re: I’m still not happy with the Mockingbird’s tone.

BTW, the Super Distortion ROARS through a good Marshall emulation. It's actually one of my fave sounds to play the Super Distortion through. if you like Marshalls, odds are you'll like the Super Distortion.

Go for the classic Hamer look: A zebra PAF style in the neck and a cream Super Distotion at the bridge. Trust me, it looks yummy (that's how I had my Hamer and how I now have my LP).

Good luck. :burnout:

 

[MikeS]

Re: I’m still not happy with the Mockingbird’s tone.

Re: I’m still not happy with the Mockingbird’s tone.

Go for the classic Hamer look: A zebra PAF style in the neck and a cream Super Distotion at the bridge. Trust me, it looks yummy (that's how I had my Hamer and how I now have my LP).

Funny, I was just thinking that while looking at some pickups at Musicians Friend. I've done double black and zebra, but never double cream and zebra.

I still prefer the look of the covered pups I have in it now, but a purdy guitar is useless if it sounds like poopy.

 

[JeffB]

Re: I’m still not happy with the Mockingbird’s tone.

Re: I’m still not happy with the Mockingbird’s tone.

SuperD, you will like!

99% sure of it

Not sure how it will mix w/ the PGn, but SuperD is THE classic metal sound..besides actual PAF types.

JB is that later 80s LA Metal tone...fine in a superstrat...not good at all (IMO) in a Gibson-ish type guitar.

 

[MikeS]

Re: I’m still not happy with the Mockingbird’s tone.

Re: I’m still not happy with the Mockingbird’s tone.

I'm close to pulling the trigger. I remember what my 'bird looked like with the stock double creams (still not sure how Rich got away with that). The SuperD looks great on paper. Tonight I'm going to mull over a neck pickup. I may be whipping out the plastic by week's end.

Thanks for your help guys. If this next pair doesn't work, this guitar might go up for sale, so a lot is riding on your recommendations.

 

[AmpliFIRE]

Re: I’m still not happy with the Mockingbird’s tone.

Re: I’m still not happy with the Mockingbird’s tone.

The Super D is a great pup, but I prefer the Tone Zone! It's more modern sounding and has a ton of harmonics.

 

[smauk43]

Re: I’m still not happy with the Mockingbird’s tone.

Re: I’m still not happy with the Mockingbird’s tone.

I've got a Super D in lp style guitar (actually a PRS SE singlecut) paired with a Hum from Hell in the bridge. This combo will never be replaced. To me, nothing sounds more "rock", Kiss, AC/DC-ish, not metal however. I don't know why the Hum from Hell doesn't get discussed much. Also have a Tone Zone in an Ibanez, tired of it. Good for metal, but I don't go there very often. Will be getting Duncans in there soon.

 

[JeffB]

Re: I’m still not happy with the Mockingbird’s tone.

Re: I’m still not happy with the Mockingbird’s tone.

I'm close to pulling the trigger. I remember what my 'bird looked like with the stock double creams (still not sure how Rich got away with that). The SuperD looks great on paper. Tonight I'm going to mull over a neck pickup. I may be whipping out the plastic by week's end.

Thanks for your help guys. If this next pair doesn't work, this guitar might go up for sale, so a lot is riding on your recommendations.

Seriously from the specs of your axe and what you described(especially as regards to the 498/490), I'm pretty sure it will be what you are looking for...maybe not perfect, but much better than what you have/had in it. It will totally beef up that axe..the bright nature of the guitar/fingerboard will keep it from getting muddy but not add any extraneous high end with such a thick pup.

I don' know about the PGn though...they are bright by nature...I believe I'd go darker (or 250K pot)...AP2 or Air classic...

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: I’m still not happy with the Mockingbird’s tone.

Re: I’m still not happy with the Mockingbird’s tone.

I don' know about the PGn though...they are bright by nature...I believe I'd go darker (or 250K pot)...AP2 or Air classic...

Nah man, I'm talking about a PG BRIDGE model in the neck. It really beefed up the neck slot of my 24 fret maple neck thru (Carvin DC127T). :burnout:

 

[DI_IORIO]

Re: I’m still not happy with the Mockingbird’s tone.

Re: I’m still not happy with the Mockingbird’s tone.

I agree with JeffB
You can't go wrong with the Super Distortion
I have one on my Charvel superstrat and sounds awesome. The sound of classic rock/metal