In Phase Or Out Of Phase
- Thread starter Sniper1
- Start date
crusty philtrum
Vintageologist
Re: In Phase Or Out Of Phase
Yes, but....itf the ground wire is attached to the casing of the pickup, then the casing of the pickup you reverse will be going to the hot side of the amp and will make a hell of a noise if you touch it. Do you have a multimeter? You can test for that before you go ahead. If you can get your hands on an analogue meter (moving needle rather than digital readout) there is a way to check the phasing at the output socket.
If your pups are 4 conductor, things will be easy....or even 2 conductor plus shield. If they are just a single core inside the shielding, which i suspect is the case here, things may be as i have mentioned. It seems wierd that 2 pups of the same type from the same manufacturer would be out of phase. Were they designated as a bridge and neck model, or are they both identical in that respect?
If the pickups are out of phase, take a close listen to the 'in between' sound....both pickups on together. Do they lose a lot of volume in that position and is the sound quite hollow, almost Fendery? That can be a good indicator, but it's a matter of degrees....I always use the analogue multimeter test straight away as you don't even need to be in the guitar to find out what's going on.
Yes, but....itf the ground wire is attached to the casing of the pickup, then the casing of the pickup you reverse will be going to the hot side of the amp and will make a hell of a noise if you touch it. Do you have a multimeter? You can test for that before you go ahead. If you can get your hands on an analogue meter (moving needle rather than digital readout) there is a way to check the phasing at the output socket.
If your pups are 4 conductor, things will be easy....or even 2 conductor plus shield. If they are just a single core inside the shielding, which i suspect is the case here, things may be as i have mentioned. It seems wierd that 2 pups of the same type from the same manufacturer would be out of phase. Were they designated as a bridge and neck model, or are they both identical in that respect?
If the pickups are out of phase, take a close listen to the 'in between' sound....both pickups on together. Do they lose a lot of volume in that position and is the sound quite hollow, almost Fendery? That can be a good indicator, but it's a matter of degrees....I always use the analogue multimeter test straight away as you don't even need to be in the guitar to find out what's going on.
crusty philtrum
Vintageologist
Re: In Phase Or Out Of Phase
Ok....but do you mean 2 wires that are separate and not enclosed in a braided shielding wire? If that's the case, go ahead and try swapping them round, see if it makes a difference.
Ok....but do you mean 2 wires that are separate and not enclosed in a braided shielding wire? If that's the case, go ahead and try swapping them round, see if it makes a difference.
crusty philtrum
Vintageologist
Re: In Phase Or Out Of Phase
Cool....got it....well there is still a chance the ground wire will be connected to the casing, but i'd go ahead anyway and reverse the wires one 1 of the pickups as you suggested in your original post and see what happens....it's a simple job and easily reversed. If it fixes it, great, if not, at least that has been tried and eliminated from the equation. Let us know how it goes.
Cool....got it....well there is still a chance the ground wire will be connected to the casing, but i'd go ahead anyway and reverse the wires one 1 of the pickups as you suggested in your original post and see what happens....it's a simple job and easily reversed. If it fixes it, great, if not, at least that has been tried and eliminated from the equation. Let us know how it goes.
Re: In Phase Or Out Of Phase
Encountered a major SNAFU, I stated 2 wires,WRONG!, peeled back some insulation and found another wire,now heres what I have-1 RED,1 WHITE,and 1 GROUND,hence 3 wires,now do I wed the RED and White together or just close my eyes and pick one? All I know now is which one is ground.
crusty philtrum said:
Encountered a major SNAFU, I stated 2 wires,WRONG!, peeled back some insulation and found another wire,now heres what I have-1 RED,1 WHITE,and 1 GROUND,hence 3 wires,now do I wed the RED and White together or just close my eyes and pick one? All I know now is which one is ground.
crusty philtrum
Vintageologist
Re: In Phase Or Out Of Phase
OK.....I can't say for sure but my guess would be this....use red as the hot wire....connect the white and shield (ground) wires to ground.....both pickups the same.....can you tell me how it is wired at present?
OK.....I can't say for sure but my guess would be this....use red as the hot wire....connect the white and shield (ground) wires to ground.....both pickups the same.....can you tell me how it is wired at present?
crusty philtrum
Vintageologist
Re: In Phase Or Out Of Phase
But this configuration you have is good....my guess is that the white and red wires are the ends of the coil and the shield wire is connected to the pickup case....this will allow you to try both phases (red as hot or white as hot) without getting the casing linked to the hot side of things...
But this configuration you have is good....my guess is that the white and red wires are the ends of the coil and the shield wire is connected to the pickup case....this will allow you to try both phases (red as hot or white as hot) without getting the casing linked to the hot side of things...
crusty philtrum
Vintageologist
Re: In Phase Or Out Of Phase
Hey I just found this....
http://www.fenderforum.com/forum.html?db=&topic_number=575664&lastpost=2006-07-0812:02:40
Scroll down this page, it covers exactly what you need to know, someone had almostt identical prob's....and it looks like my guess could have been correct, red wire is hot, solder the white and the shield or ground wire to ground. Let us know what's happening.....
Hey I just found this....
http://www.fenderforum.com/forum.html?db=&topic_number=575664&lastpost=2006-07-0812:02:40
Scroll down this page, it covers exactly what you need to know, someone had almostt identical prob's....and it looks like my guess could have been correct, red wire is hot, solder the white and the shield or ground wire to ground. Let us know what's happening.....
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crusty philtrum
Vintageologist
Re: In Phase Or Out Of Phase
Hi RobertS
Yes, and it looks at the moment like the pickups are not properly wired inividually, so neither one is working properly when on alone. If we can get that happening, but it still seems they are out of phase, well that will then be easy to remedy.
I have to say, years ago a friend of mine had a theory that if you wired your pickups to be out of phase when both on, that when using the pickups individually, they would not sound as good. I scoffed at this idea. However, I have since had 2 occasions to find out that he was right. The most recent time was on my guitar shown here in my avatar pic. The neck p/up is a Gibson, the bridge is a Seymour Duncan JB. For years it sounded good, but I always felt i should have been getting more grunt from the bridge p/up in particular.
Recently I decided to cut away the top of the pickup cover to see if that would help. When i was reinstalling the pickup, i used an analogue multimeter and tested the phase....a trick i didnt know when i originally set the guitar up. It turned out that even though i had the Gibson pickup wired correctly (no other way to do it....single core shileded cable), and the JB wired as per the instructions....they were out of phase, and had been for years! I swapped the JB and retested the phase, and, VOILA!...and as soon as i plugged it in, there was the extra sound i'd never heard from both of the pickups, even when used individually! So my mate was right...the individual pickups will still work quite well but there are losses....subtle but significant. Now I always advocate the use of an analogue multimeter to test the phase to avoid these losses.
Sniper1....looking forward to hearing if the previous posts get you sorted, and how you feel about your pickups once you can hear them properly....
Hi RobertS
Yes, and it looks at the moment like the pickups are not properly wired inividually, so neither one is working properly when on alone. If we can get that happening, but it still seems they are out of phase, well that will then be easy to remedy.
I have to say, years ago a friend of mine had a theory that if you wired your pickups to be out of phase when both on, that when using the pickups individually, they would not sound as good. I scoffed at this idea. However, I have since had 2 occasions to find out that he was right. The most recent time was on my guitar shown here in my avatar pic. The neck p/up is a Gibson, the bridge is a Seymour Duncan JB. For years it sounded good, but I always felt i should have been getting more grunt from the bridge p/up in particular.
Recently I decided to cut away the top of the pickup cover to see if that would help. When i was reinstalling the pickup, i used an analogue multimeter and tested the phase....a trick i didnt know when i originally set the guitar up. It turned out that even though i had the Gibson pickup wired correctly (no other way to do it....single core shileded cable), and the JB wired as per the instructions....they were out of phase, and had been for years! I swapped the JB and retested the phase, and, VOILA!...and as soon as i plugged it in, there was the extra sound i'd never heard from both of the pickups, even when used individually! So my mate was right...the individual pickups will still work quite well but there are losses....subtle but significant. Now I always advocate the use of an analogue multimeter to test the phase to avoid these losses.
Sniper1....looking forward to hearing if the previous posts get you sorted, and how you feel about your pickups once you can hear them properly....
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crusty philtrum
Vintageologist
Re: In Phase Or Out Of Phase
is that how it is now, sniper1? white=hot, black=ground, red=n/c?
is that how it is now, sniper1? white=hot, black=ground, red=n/c?
crusty philtrum
Vintageologist
Re: In Phase Or Out Of Phase
OK my friend...get the soldering iron on.....you're going in !!!!!
this is how it's gotta be....for BOTH pickups....
RED .... Hot
WHITE + BLACK ......Ground.
I'll have a beer ready for you.......
OK my friend...get the soldering iron on.....you're going in !!!!!
this is how it's gotta be....for BOTH pickups....
RED .... Hot
WHITE + BLACK ......Ground.
I'll have a beer ready for you.......
crusty philtrum
Vintageologist
Re: In Phase Or Out Of Phase
Cool, i'm looking forward to seeing if we get a result here....
Cool, i'm looking forward to seeing if we get a result here....
crusty philtrum
Vintageologist
Re: In Phase Or Out Of Phase
you put the red to hot...which is correct....but the white to hot as well????? are you sure? i just went back to that link and white should be to ground.....but if you're getting good sound, i don't want to argue, hehe....how's it sound?
you put the red to hot...which is correct....but the white to hot as well????? are you sure? i just went back to that link and white should be to ground.....but if you're getting good sound, i don't want to argue, hehe....how's it sound?