Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

[Franco]

Hi, first of all, a big "Hello" to the comunity !
I have been away from the forum for almost 3 years... but have been reading lately.

The thing is : I bought 2 Alnico Pros, one for neck and one for bridge. As you know, the APH-1 is a bit on the low side in output matter, but that´s not an issue. The issue is that i am doing a coil split for each bucker, and i would like to select different coils. Like this :

Humbucker Bridge - Coil selected = slug coil (the one in the left) ?

Humbucker Neck - Coil selected = screw coil (the one now in the left) ? . Neck pickup is rotated 180º , as you know.

1 - Is there any schematic where this is performed ? The coil split schematic from Seymour Duncan always selects the screw coil, right ?

2 - For what i pretend to do, is this combination of both neck screw coil and bridge flat coil Hum-cancelling in parallel?

Thanks everyone in advance !

Regards

:headbang:

 

[Franco]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

Hi,
After a little research, i found this:
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=48073

Thanks Artietoo, fantastic explanation

Since APH-1 will sound thinner when split, i believe that the "NECK SIDE" Coil splits will be a better option, either as individual, or combined in parallel.

Is it worth to add a phase switch? Any "dead" positions may occur?
I want a pratical instrument. Phase option would be very nice, however, i recognize that it could only be useful in Neck bucker + Bridge bucker, since they are already low in output in their normal mode (Humbucker mode).

Unless i add a series/parallel switch as in JP wiring diagram, but i´ve heard there are dead positions, which is not nice.

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

The only dead positions in the JP wiring occur if you hit the series switch and don't have both pickups selected. Connecting 2 pickups in series and then removing one from the circuit does create an open short.

Changing phase with the pickups in series or parallel and full or split creates no dead positions.

Splitting the neck bucker to different coils doesn't make as big a tonal difference as splitting the bridge bucker because of the bridge pickups proximity to the bridge and the limited string movement in that area of the guitar.

 

[Franco]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

Hi.
Absolutely. Didn´t remember that shutting down one of the two pickups (in bucker or coil mode) in series, creates a dead position. So, i can´t select "series" mode with just the neck or just the bridge selected. Makes sense.
The thing i must decide is if it´s is good or not to have the series option. The only use i can see for that, is to use along with a phase switch, because 2 buckers (in series and in phase) or even neck coil + bridge coil (in series and in phase) is not a major improvement in tone. But reversing the phase in one of them could have a use, since parallel out-of-phase sounds are too thin.

About either screw or slug coil to choose, well, in fact the tonal difference is not that big. You´re right, bucker coils are too close to each other. Important thing is to have it hum-cancelling.

Thank you

The only dead positions in the JP wiring occur if you hit the series switch and don't have both pickups selected. Connecting 2 pickups in series and then removing one from the circuit does create an open short.

Changing phase with the pickups in series or parallel and full or split creates no dead positions.

Splitting the neck bucker to different coils doesn't make as big a tonal difference as splitting the bridge bucker because of the bridge pickups proximity to the bridge and the limited string movement in that area of the guitar.

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

The phase option is cool not only because it sounds cool but having the phase switch in combination with the splits and series/parallel actually corrects the out of phase issue in split + series combination.

Gibsons version of the JP wiring is nice because while not all of the switches are useful by themselves but it's the way they work together.

Having both humbuckers on and out of phase with your foot on a wah pedal puts you instantly into JP territory, especially with the gain up.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

The issue is that i am doing a coil split for each bucker, and i would like to select different coils. Like this :

Humbucker Bridge - Coil selected = slug coil (the one in the left) ?

Humbucker Neck - Coil selected = screw coil (the one now in the left) ? . Neck pickup is rotated 180º , as you know.

1 - Is there any schematic where this is performed ? The coil split schematic from Seymour Duncan always selects the screw coil, right ?

2 - For what i pretend to do, is this combination of both neck screw coil and bridge flat coil Hum-cancelling in parallel? :headbang:

If you use both coil cut (SC) & phase on the same PU, (volume & tone) you can switch which coil is on during the coil cut. The slug coil is about 50% further from the bridge, so it's a little warmer.

If you don't use the full blown Page system, I'd recommend a coil cut & phase on the bridge PU, and a coil cut on the neck. Use push-pulls so you don't have to drill any holes in your guitar.

 

[Franco]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

Absolutely. Coil split and phase are mandatory. The series option is being considered, but ... just a few more wires wont hurt.
I just have to make it look very clean and professional. I have patience.. :approve:

I wont be using all sounds at a time. The external look wont be affected also, so, they´re there, if i need them... i just pull the switch and voila.

Is the dead position occuring in botch neck alone or bridge alone and pullin the series switch? Or just for the neck? I am going to follow Seymour duncan´s wiring for JP. Not the Guitarelectronics schematic.

Ps - Still deciding weather APH-1 or SH-11 for Bridge pickup. I will have an APH-1 for neck, and like Slash (and old rock tones too). I think SH-11 may give the guitar a different tone and the riffs wont sound quite the same. But... the SH-11 may be more versatile. I dont know.

ah... and the special pots... do they need to be long shaft to fit a LP ?

Many thanks for all ! :scratchch

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

Use the gibson wiring diagram, I can't stress this enough.

The dead spot is only in the rhythm position.

Production Gibson Les Pauls use a mounting plate and the long shaft pots. Historics and non-Gibson Les Pauls type models use the short shaft pots. I always convert my production Les Pauls to the short shaft pots when I install the JP wiring but that invloves removing the mounting plate and removing some wood from the cavity. It's not a job that I would recommend unless you have a drill press and some solid wood working skills.

I have seen receintly that long shaft dpdt push pull pots are now available but I am not positive that the longer pot chassis will fit under the control cavity cover.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

Connecting 2 pickups in series and then removing one from the circuit does create an open short.

Is it an open or a short?

 

[Franco]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

Hmm... ok.
the SD scheme looked great and easy whereas the Gibson is more of a drawing with instructions. But, if you recommend it... no prob.
So i can´t select "neck pickup" and then pull the parallel/series switch...

Any advise about the pickup selection? APH-1 or SH-11 ?
APH-1 is going to need a little treble cut in the amp, thefore making the neck pickup a bit darker. SH-11 is darker (I think) and i will have to brighten the amp, so ... the neck pickup will become brighter too.
I use an Ashdown peacemaker 60w all valve amp.

I have a 59 currently in my guitar. It´s an 95 Epi Les Paul sunburst.
I play most blues , hard-rock, old rock with bridge pickup.
And i must confess, i like Slash´s tone. But... maybe there´s no need to have APH-1 bridge to nail it.... altough it´s the safest option.

Cheers

Use the gibson wiring diagram, I can't stress this enough.

The dead spot is only in the rhythm position.

Production Gibson Les Pauls use a mounting plate and the long shaft pots. Historics and non-Gibson Les Pauls type models use the short shaft pots. I always convert my production Les Pauls to the short shaft pots when I install the JP wiring but that invloves removing the mounting plate and removing some wood from the cavity. It's not a job that I would recommend unless you have a drill press and some solid wood working skills.

I have seen receintly that long shaft dpdt push pull pots are now available but I am not positive that the longer pot chassis will fit under the control cavity cover.

 

[Franco]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

in the gibson schematic (Top part of the scheme) , does it have "where" the pickup 4 conductors will connect?
Can i follow duncans scheme to do it ?

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

I believe that Artie has a diagram version of the Gibson JP wiring with the correct wire codes so we'll ask him for it.

Be patient Franco. You can use the SD version but it is not the diagram I would recommend.

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ? - HEY ARTIE

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ? - HEY ARTIE

Here is the diagram you want.

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

I would probaby go with the CC ib the bridge and the APH-II in the neck slot. The CC is hotter and warmer than the APH-II in the bridge position.

 

[Franco]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

Hi Robert.
Thanks so much for you kind help.
I believe i´ve seen that (also) Duncan Schematic in the forum somewhere after many searches. Anyway, it´s in here now and that´s great.

I know you use a CC in the bridge. Do you think i´ll be going far from Slash´s tone if i use it? It´s the only alternative for stronger Alnico2 Pickup.
If pickups weren´t so expensive , i would give both a try. I know what a 59 sounds like... anyway. And i know it´s "almost" identical to a APH-1 as far as i´ve heard.
The CC has a stronger low-midrange frequencies and not so much treble. Probably a much better sounding pickup for live situations...
Maybe the CC will seem like the SSL-3, but Humbucker version. In a Strat, the SSL-3 balances, giving a more an humbucker-like tone. But in a Epi LP, i think the CC will be a bit dark. Dont know, never heard more than SD soundclips...!
Have to think about it... :1:

Cheers

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

I am a big fan of all the C-series pickups. My CC is actually a Custom at the moment but I am considering swapping the magent out for the alnico v magnet that the pickup originally had in it. I really like the Custom but I have been playing my EL34 loaded 2203 a lot lately and the mids are a little thick in with this rig. I'm thinking I need to open up my tone a little and the C-5 really does have the best (open/chimey) clean tone of all the C-series pickups.

Go with what you think will work best for you. There is nothing wrong with a set of APH-IIs.

With the Epi you'll want the std shaft length, not the long shafts.

 

[Franco]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

The choosing pickup process, as well as amplifiers, tubes, strings, etc, it´s a heart thing. Sometimes, very impulsive.
My heart tells me that the APH-1b would be THE choice.
My brain tells me that the CC is probably the most balanced choice.

I think i´ll follow my heart. However, we must admit the CC is likely to be better to split in the bridge, where the APH-1b will sound very weak, probably.

This last schematic you gave me is for "neckside coils", "bridgeside coils", "inner coils" , "outter coils" ?
It appears to be the "neckside coils" , because neck p/u (red/white) wires are being grounded and bridge p/u (red/white) are being sent to "hot".

cheers.

I am a big fan of all the C-series pickups. My CC is actually a Custom at the moment but I am considering swapping the magent out for the alnico v magnet that the pickup originally had in it. I really like the Custom but I have been playing my EL34 loaded 2203 a lot lately and the mids are a little thick in with this rig. I'm thinking I need to open up my tone a little and the C-5 really does have the best (open/chimey) clean tone of all the C-series pickups.

Go with what you think will work best for you. There is nothing wrong with a set of APH-IIs.

With the Epi you'll want the std shaft length, not the long shafts.

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

In that schematic the neck splits to the stud coil and the bridge splits to the screw coil.

The phase switch will change the bridge split to the stud coil.

If you want to make an outer coil split, rotate the neck pickup in its mount.

 

[Franco]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

"Splits to the" - This means this pickup is the choosen or the "erased" pickup? I think it´s the choosen.

I would like to have the screw coil working in the neck, and the slug coil working in the bridge. So, it´s the "neck side" coils working, to warm up (even if it´s just a tinny bit of difference, that it is !!...). As you know, APH-1 screw coil alone will be like a mouse screaming...

Any chance of having the "neck-side" pickups working? I dont mind if out-of-phase, the working coil in the bridge is the screw one. Just opens the overall frequency range (bigger difference/distance bettween 2 pickups)


Many thanks for your kind help, Robert.

Cheers :friday:

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

If you swap the black and green wires on both pickup, that should switch the coils that the pickps will split to.