Intonation, it's always about the intonation

[symptom]

Hello guys. A month ago I took my SG to a guitar tech to make some repairs and also do some setup. The problem is that after the job some chord plays out of tune and this is really annoying, especially the E chord "079990"

The thing happens between the G and B strings but when I check the intonation it's dead right. In the past I had this same problem, which I solved after hours tweaking the string height. So I ask you guys, what are your tips to this problem.

One thing I know is that the tech adjusted the truss rod, making the neck less curve... Do you think I'll have to loose the truss rod making the neck more "arched"?

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Intonation, it's always about the intonation

How are you checking the intonation? (I ask because if it's really dead right - all over the neck, you shouldn't be having the problem.)

 

[agentzero12]

Re: Intonation, it's always about the intonation

I agree with the above post. And if you are using a battery powered tuner, check the battery to make sure it isn't low and giving a bad reading. A buddy had a guitar he claimed the intonation was way off and when I got it to fix, the intonation wasn't the main problem. While it was slightly off the biggest problem was the strings were too high so it was in effect, "bending" the notes during chording which gave the effect of the intonation being off.

My guess is that after coming from a tech, that may not be the problem but it might be something to look at. The truss rod adjustment has more to do with fret buzz and dead notes than with pitch.

 

[symptom]

Re: Intonation, it's always about the intonation

I'm checking this way: open string, harmonic at 12th fret, pressed at 12th fret. All over the neck, sometimes the g string is a little sharp

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Intonation, it's always about the intonation

What kind of bridge does your SG have? Is it a fully-adjustable Tune-O-Matic? Or is it a wraparound bar? Or something else?

 

[erksin]

Re: Intonation, it's always about the intonation

I'm checking this way: open string, harmonic at 12th fret, pressed at 12th fret. All over the neck, sometimes the g string is a little sharp

Frets all level?

You'll never have perfect intonation all over the neck, FWIW. Ever.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Intonation, it's always about the intonation

Frets all level?

You'll never have perfect intonation all over the neck, FWIW. Ever.

Not 'perfect' is true, but it is possible to have it pretty damn good up through the 14th fret or so. I have a few guitars were I can play open strings and second octaves up through the 12th-14th fret that are in tune, and chords work all up and down the neck with open strings.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Intonation, it's always about the intonation

Try playing every note from the 12th fret down to the 1st with your tuner....then you'll see how the intonation is.

Funnily enough thats how you should setup intonation too.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Intonation, it's always about the intonation

My technique for fine tuning intonation is to make sure every fretted note on every string reads dead center from the 10th fret up to the 17th. If you get them all dialed in, the rest of the frets fall into place on the tuner as well.

Also, make sure all the nut slots are filed properly for their height and string gauge. If any of them are cut too high, that string will ring sharp all over the place. If you intonate to compensate for that, then they'll ring flat when open.

 

[symptom]

Re: Intonation, it's always about the intonation

Thanks for the inputs. I'll try something at home and if my patience runs out, I'll visit the tech again and check with him.

My bridge is the standard tuneomatic by Gotoh

 

[crusty philtrum]

Re: Intonation, it's always about the intonation

How long between when the truss rod was adjusted and you wrote your opening post ? Truss rod adjustments can take a couple of days to reach their new settling-point, and things like climate and room temperatures can come into play.

Did you have a new nut fitted ? How are the string heights at the nut ?

 

[symptom]

Re: Intonation, it's always about the intonation

How long between when the truss rod was adjusted and you wrote your opening post ? Truss rod adjustments can take a couple of days to reach their new settling-point, and things like climate and room temperatures can come into play.

Did you have a new nut fitted ? How are the string heights at the nut ?

About 2 weeks...

I have a bone nut for about 3 years. The chords near the nut seems fine.. The problem is more apparent in the middle of the neck, around 9th fret

 

[uOpt]

Re: Intonation, it's always about the intonation

So frets 1, 2 and 12 are fine but 7 and 9 are not?

 

[symptom]

Re: Intonation, it's always about the intonation

So frets 1, 2 and 12 are fine but 7 and 9 are not?

I can't check it right now and I don't know if frets 1, 2 are exactly fine. I'll check later. The thing is that chords in that position plays right, chords in the middle of the neck don't.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Intonation, it's always about the intonation

So is 12 fine or not?

 

[SongsForTheDeaf]

Re: Intonation, it's always about the intonation

I might be either really lucky, or tone deaf but I have never had intonation issues with my guitars even older ones I got used without setups

EDIT- I did rent an SG 60s reissue (the one that looks like an SG standard but a bit pricier) and it had terrible tuning issues and intonation issues... wow can't believe I forgot about that, it's the reason I don't even try Gibsons at the shops anymore

 

[tubecrunch]

Re: Intonation, it's always about the intonation

Change the strings.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Intonation, it's always about the intonation

When a guitar is tuned perfectly at the 12th fret and open, it will NOT be in tune at the 5th - 8th frets. That's the nature of the beast and why there are so many companies making so many different models of compensated nuts. And why there are guitars with fanned frets and other very wierd fret designs. People are always trying to compensate for the inherrent tuning problems associated with a standard spaced guitar fretboard.

Some of you have said that your guitars are perfectly in tune at the nut and at any position on the neck...you are either lying or tone deaf or in denial...it isn't possible. It's physics.

There are certainly things that can be done to minimize the discrepencies, some suggestions have already been given, but "perfect intonation" is not a possibility.

 

[constant mesh]

Re: Intonation, it's always about the intonation

If the intonation is to pitch, check the string action and truss adjustment first. You might also have major fret wear on the 9th fret so that a particular string has to sit lower when fretted and goes sharp as a result. Leave the harmonics alone, that's not a fretted note. Intonation only dictates the fretted notes as they are a fixed system to which you're adjusting the scale lenght by moving the saddles back and forth.

Are you testing it out under distortion? If so, a "99" on the D and the G are a diatonic pair (1st and 3rd) and these never sound good on a plain G string under distortion.

If you're hearing you're out of tune already on clean sounds, there has to be more prominent problem.

Once I had a customer always complaining about intonation until we sat down and he played some stuff. I noticed that on diads and triads he was fretting with his ring finger exclusively (Cobain style) and he was pushing the strings apart with rather large fingertips making each one go sharp and fall out of proper interval. When I played it it was fine, so he was forced to adapt his playing style a little bit since he didn't want to switch to bigger gauge strings, and now everything's fine

So keep an eye on your technique too.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Intonation, it's always about the intonation

And spend some more time with the guitar playing it, and your fingers will learn to press less and more when needed.
I for one cannot play on those things with almost dead accurate intonation mods...makes everything fall apart soundwise to me
Get used to how it reacts, and you will learn how it plays.
And maybe try a few different strings too