Jazz bridge with ceramic mag
- Thread starter big kurka
- Start date
freefrog
Well-known member
Years ago, I've built an equivalent HB: poly wire, 8.5k, ceramic bar. Does it count?
I've mounted it in a cheap PRS copy for a local musician. It sounded nice in this guitar, with a SH55 in neck position.
That said, the effects of ceramic are pretty much always the same: inductance drops. Magnetic flux increases. Consequences: louder signal. "Colder" tone with more perceived treble, less perceived low mids. More bass too in some cases (mostly with double thick ceramic bars and/or when several magnets are used).
Below is the spectrum of a Gibson style bridge HB, poly wire, low DCR (7.3k in this case: it's roughly a Jazz neck, but in bridge position). Played directly to the board.
Orange lines = short degaussed A2 bar magnet. Blue lines = same pickup with full strenght ceramic bar (long thin shape).
Upper screen = single notes from unfretted low E to 22th fret of the high E, all notes stacked. Bottom pic= same thing in chords from unfretted strings to 12th fret. Relatively aligned levels to make clearer the difference of EQing.
Big differences with single notes in this case because the coils used had a low parasitic capacitance. The gap with single notes is not that big when pickups are inherently more capacitive (as is a SH2 IME).
FWIW.
I've mounted it in a cheap PRS copy for a local musician. It sounded nice in this guitar, with a SH55 in neck position.
That said, the effects of ceramic are pretty much always the same: inductance drops. Magnetic flux increases. Consequences: louder signal. "Colder" tone with more perceived treble, less perceived low mids. More bass too in some cases (mostly with double thick ceramic bars and/or when several magnets are used).
Below is the spectrum of a Gibson style bridge HB, poly wire, low DCR (7.3k in this case: it's roughly a Jazz neck, but in bridge position). Played directly to the board.
Orange lines = short degaussed A2 bar magnet. Blue lines = same pickup with full strenght ceramic bar (long thin shape).
Upper screen = single notes from unfretted low E to 22th fret of the high E, all notes stacked. Bottom pic= same thing in chords from unfretted strings to 12th fret. Relatively aligned levels to make clearer the difference of EQing.
Big differences with single notes in this case because the coils used had a low parasitic capacitance. The gap with single notes is not that big when pickups are inherently more capacitive (as is a SH2 IME).
FWIW.
Bowtomecha
New member
I’ve honestly never seen anybody seriously post in depth about a regular jazz bridge humbucker. Wanting a ceramic mag swap in it seems like a rare thing .
I do know that the jazz neck and the alnico II pro neck are the same pickup but with an a5 and an a2 magnet respectively. I wonder if the same goes for their bridge models. If so, you might find it more likely to see somebody take an alnico II pro bridge humbucker and swap it with a ceramic magnet since the a2pro is a lot more popular as a bridge humbucker than a jazz.
I do know that the jazz neck and the alnico II pro neck are the same pickup but with an a5 and an a2 magnet respectively. I wonder if the same goes for their bridge models. If so, you might find it more likely to see somebody take an alnico II pro bridge humbucker and swap it with a ceramic magnet since the a2pro is a lot more popular as a bridge humbucker than a jazz.
big kurka
New member
Thanks for the reply’s. I have a pre se tremonti that I’m going to put a Jazz set in but I’m questioning whether the JazzB will have enough oomph that I want. I’ve tried the PG set in Edward’s LP and the bridge was gutless to me in that guitar which leaves concerned that the jazz b might have the same effect.
I guess I’m going to just start with stock and then start swapping mags.
I guess I’m going to just start with stock and then start swapping mags.
Artie
Peaveyologist
I have a Jazz set in a Cort CL-1000. They match perfectly. I rely on the amp for the "oomph." :cool2:
Rex_Rocker
Well-known member
I see there are also some added mids from Ceramic in the 300-1K range.
freefrog
Well-known member
That's why I've talked about "less perceived low mids" and not about "less low mids" in the comments before my shared pics...
Psychoacoustically, what is objectively a flattened frequency response with alNi(Co) bars is still often perceived as more middy - so much that despite of my screenshots, A2 is most often described as bringing more mids than ceramic, AFAIK. ;-)
It's partly due to something not translated by a simple frequency response chart: dynamics. Transients...
AlNi(Co) brings eddy currents that ceramic doesn't cause. Hence a dynamic response perceived as smoother in many cases and this smoothness seems spontaneously felt as promoting the mids.
Now and as usual, these general parameters interact with other factors, varying themselves according to the exact charge of magnets (itself linked to their origin and age), to the parasitic capacitance of coils and wires, etc. Hence my mantra about the fact that I don't trust generalizations about magnets. ;-)
I've somewhere a comparative chart with A2 vs A5 vs Ceramic in a same HB. I'll try to find and share it - not easy for my old brain since I've thousands of experimental screenshots in various hard disks.
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Rex_Rocker
Well-known member
It's funny how perception can be really tricky. I know some people describe ceramic as "scooped", but that's never been my experience. However, I will say, I wasn't expecting it to have more low and core mids. I waould've thought it'd be more high mids around 1.5K and up. It's very interesting.That's why I've talked about "less perceived low mids" and not about "less low mids" in the comments before my shared pics...
Psychoacoustically, what is objectively a flattened frequency response with alNi(Co) bars is still often perceived as more middy - so much that despite of my screenshots, A2 is most often described as bringing more mids than ceramic, AFAIK. ;-)
It's partly due to something not translated by a simple frequency response chart: dynamics. Transients...
AlNi(Co) brings eddy currents that ceramic doesn't cause. Hence a dynamic response perceived as smoother in many cases and this smoothness seems spontaneously felt as promoting the mids.
Now and as usual, these general parameters interact with other factors, varying themselves according to the exact charge of magnets (itself linked to their origin and age), to the parasitic capacitance of coils and wires, etc. Hence my mantra about the fact that I don't trust generalizations about magnets. ;-)
I've somewhere a comparative chart with A2 vs A5 vs Ceramic in a same HB. I'll try to find and share it - not easy for my old brain since I've thousands of experimental screenshots in various hard disks.
I'd love to see those graphs.
hooly_booly
New member
The specs are somewhat similar to a Dimarzio Super 2: 8.7k matched coils with a ceramic mag. The screws + poles vs big Allen screws will definitely make a difference in sound, but I think generally you can look at the Super 2 EQ to get an idea of what it'll sound like. Most likely it will be very, very bright. You're probably better off using a double thick ceramic than a normal sized one.
Sound wise I know the first couple QOTSA albums Josh is using the Super 2 in the bridge position of his Ovation, though he uses the neck quite a bit as well. I'm not aware of anyone else who used it in the bridge very much that you could use as a sound reference.
I've read the old Ibanez Super 80's were PAFs with ceramic mags, similar to how the Super 70's were PAFs with A8's. You might be able to find some demos of those on youtube or something.
Sound wise I know the first couple QOTSA albums Josh is using the Super 2 in the bridge position of his Ovation, though he uses the neck quite a bit as well. I'm not aware of anyone else who used it in the bridge very much that you could use as a sound reference.
I've read the old Ibanez Super 80's were PAFs with ceramic mags, similar to how the Super 70's were PAFs with A8's. You might be able to find some demos of those on youtube or something.
Juanhanglo
Active member
Dimarzio's transition is a ~10k neck ceramic. It has warmer highs and a low mid bump. The bridge is ceramic too. I like them alot. These and the mo'joe/paf joe are my favorite sets.
Ibanez v7 is also ceramic and in the 8 to 9k range.
Ibanez v7 is also ceramic and in the 8 to 9k range.
metalshredder
New member
Tell me about the jazz neck swap. I’m thinking of doing exactly that.
it gets louder and a bit more aggressive, but its a neck pup so the high end wont be that over the top. less bottom, which meant i could raise it closer to the strings to get a bit more output. it was great for fat solos with some dirt. ok clean, but not as polished as a 59n or seth lover.
metalshredder
New member
Would you say you could play distorted power chords on it, in the neck pos, high gain? I want no mud/mush, and clarity with high gain. I like the jazz, it and basically, the EMG-81 are the only things that can pull this off. Have not tried a full shred, but that’s next. Anyway so the jazz pretty well does what I want, but if I wanted…more, so less bass and more treble bite, would swapping the jazz with a ceramic get me there? Sounds like maybe, like It’s worth a few bucks to try,
The Full Shred does this better than the Jazz, actually.
metalshredder
New member
I mean, yeah I was thinking that, but how good does a ceramic Jazz do it? One way cost me like $8 and the other cost me like $100.
I say, go for the $8 solution first. If you like the sound, end the quest there. If you hate it (and only if you hate it), try the more expensive solution. But don't try the more expensive solution if you like the cheaper one hoping for 'a little better'.
ToneFiddler
New member
i say throw in a 10nF to 4,7nF cap in series with your current neck pickup!
that will kill some bass.
that will kill some bass.
