JB in two similar guitars, very different tone?

R

RideFour15

New member
I have two Ibanez RGs with JBs in the bridge position, but they sound quite a bit different to me.

In the first (RG220B), it's a basswood body with pickups mounted on pickup rings, maple/rosewood neck/fb, and an F spaced JB. In the second (RG350m), it's a basswood body with pickups mounted on pickguard, maple/maple neck, and regular spaced JB from the Hot Rodded Humbucker set. Both guitars have Ibanez floating trems.

In the first guitar, it sound crystal clear, has an amazing tone, and I absolutely love it.
In the second guitar, it sounds kind of muddy and not so clear no matter what I do with my amp.

Could this be a matter of F-spaced vs. regular spaced? The strings still align over the magnets on the regular spaced, although obviously not as well.

I notice it with both of my amps: Peavey 6505+/Marshall 1960a, and my Fender Champion 300 practice amp. And the general tone I use (recorded with my black Ibanez) can be heard in the "The Relic Preview" track on my band's page http://www.myspace.com/witheredsun
 
Re: JB in two similar guitars, very different tone?

F-spacing shouldn't change the sound of a pickup. I would try changing the height of the jb in the second guitar. It sounds like the pickup might be too close to the strings.
 
Re: JB in two similar guitars, very different tone?

It's also possible that the second guitar has different potentiometer or capacitor values, but I would try to change the height first.
 
Re: JB in two similar guitars, very different tone?

The JB was already closer to the strings on the first guitar than the second, but I lowered it a little anyways. No real change. The second guitar's JB still sounds muddier, like it has less highs or boosted mids or something.

One thing I didn't consider because I didn't think mattered is that there is no tone knob on the first guitar (I disconnected it), where on the second the tone knob is all the way forward (which I figured was equivalent to no knob basically). Think that could be a factor?


As a semi unrelated sidenote, the first guitar has a 59 in the neck and sounds warm and beautiful for cleans/solos/harmonized leads, but the Jazz in the second guitar's neck sounds weak as hell and I don't care for it at all; not sure if it's due to the different models or a similar problem.
 
Re: JB in two similar guitars, very different tone?

I've tried the JB in a number of guitars and it really is very picky about what guitars it works in. When it works it really works like your first guitar, but there are an awful lot of instances where it doesn't.

I know some people are going to go crazy at this comment but sometimes I see people say change the height of the pick-up like its going to make a huge difference to the sound. Granted changing the height of the pick-up will make subtle changes to its sound but the 'core' sound will be there. I find changing the pick-up height will only accentuate this core sound rather then make massive changes. If he finds the pick-up muddy with the pick-up far away from the string I suspect he'll find the same problem with it close up just to a different degree. I suppose it's worth suggesting as it costs nothing but whenever I see that I always think that won't solve it, and in this case I seem to be right.

My suspicion is that the pots could be different with the two guitars. I find the JB muddy with 250k pots (many people love it) but really like it with 500k pots. Maybe thats the problem. Don't underestimate this difference, it really could be the answer.

Also the difference could simply come down to the different woods on the two guitars. One having a maple fretboard and the other a rosewood one.

I'd have a look at the value of the volume and tone pots of the two guitars and compare them first.
 
Re: JB in two similar guitars, very different tone?

I've just seen what you've said about the tone knob being all the way forward. If by that you mean you've rolled the tone knob 'off' on the second guitar that'll be why it sounds muddy. Switching the tone knob down to 0 is not like switching it off. It will muddy the sound up. If thats what you have done then roll it up full and try the guitar again.
 
Re: JB in two similar guitars, very different tone?

If I have time tonight I think I'm going to disconnect the tone knob on the second guitar (I never use it). And I'm not sure which direction is like having the knob "off", but if I turn it the same way I would for the volume knob to be full volume, it allows the most highs, and sounds the least muddy. But I'll try disconnecting it nonetheless.

To get to the electronics I have to remove the pickguard on the second guitar, so I'll check the potentiometer values while going at it; I suspect they're both 500's since they're both stock electronics.
 
Re: JB in two similar guitars, very different tone?

I agree that F-spaced shouldn't be your issue. I've had a non-F-spaced swapped in for an F-spaced bucker and noted no loss in clarity or string balance.

I think that firebirdV's suggestions are good ones about adjusting pickup heights and possibly having pot value differences. Getting a pickup too close to the strings can ruin its tone, not to mention possibly killing sustain and/or leading to problems with intonation (or strat-itis, as it's sometime called.)

I hope that simply adjusting pickup heights helps you out with your issue.
 
Re: JB in two similar guitars, very different tone?

I always try a pickup with a 250k then a 500k and see what sounds best... I always disconnect the tone knob.. but u could try different configs of that also.. to elimiate spacings u could also try swapping them..

I have 2 guitars with JBs 1 has a 250k and the other a 500k... both have the same sound.... it depends how the guitar sounds acoustically...

I always try 250k since I prefer it with this pickup but 1 of my guitars sounded real muddy with it so I swapped out for a 500k and got back the same sound.
 
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Re: JB in two similar guitars, very different tone?

A guitar with the tone knob disconnected would be brighter and a bit louder than a guitar with a 250k, 500k, even a 1 Meg (Tone knob) potentiometer, even if its turn all the way.

A Tone Pot turn all the way (still has an effect on tone) is not equal to a guitar with no tone pot,

But there is an available tone pot that disconnects the tone knob from the circuit when you turn it all the way,
 
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Re: JB in two similar guitars, very different tone?

bryan the rocker said:
A guitar with the tone knob disconnected would be brighter and a bit louder than a guitar with a 250k, 500k, even a 1 Meg (Tone knob) potentiometer, even if its turn all the way.

A Tone Pot turn all the way (still has an effect on tone) is not equal to a guitar with no tone pot,

But there is an available tone pot that disconnects the tone knob from the circuit when you turn it all the way,
Click to expand...

The "No Load" tone pots remove the pot from the circuit when dialed all the way up (to "10," i.e. fully clockwise if you are looking down at the top of your guitar). Fender sells them in 250K. What I do is modify a standard pot using this link. As stated by Bryan, a "regular" tone pot, even when dialed all the way up to 10, will still affect the ciruit and the sound. Also, the link is useful if you want to raise the value of the pot (I recently bought 6 "500K" pots -- two measured about 470K, two measured 530K, and two measured 550K). The pots that measure 470K can be brought up to a higher value, if desired. Also, you can use the technique to "match" your pot values.
 
Re: JB in two similar guitars, very different tone?

I've used the JB in many guitars: Gibson and Epi Les Pauls, Hamers, Stratocasters, Telecasters...

As long as the pots and caps are the same I don't think the basic personality of the JB sounds all that different in any of them. It always sounds really good at first, and then after a few days I notice a certain penetrating quality that my ears get a little tired of hearing.

I believe Seymour uses 250K pots in the Tele/Gib which has a Jazz neck and JB bridge. After all these years I finally tried the JB with 250K pots again and found that I liked it better. Smoother.

Personally, I think most pickups retain their basic personality in just about any solid body guitar - as long as the pot values are the same.

Bottem line for me is: I tend to like my favorite pickups regardless of what guitar I have them in.

And I tend to dislike my least favorite pickups regardless of what guitar I have them in.
 
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Re: JB in two similar guitars, very different tone?

yeah, start with the electronics ... make sure they are set up the same with the same pot/cap values and all good clean solder connections ... make sure the pup height is the same on the muddy guitar as on the good one ...

other than that, the thing i notice is the maple/maple vs maple / rosewood

might just find that the JB isnt suiting your tastes for maple / maple
 
Re: JB in two similar guitars, very different tone?

I checked the wiring; they both have 500k pots. I disconnected the tone knob from guitar #2.

They sound a lot closer, but something still bugs me and stands out but I can't quite place it. Part of me is thinking now it's just placebo.

I posted a video comparing the two after removing the tone knob from guitar #2, let me know if you guys notice any difference still.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rupFqAsNxg
 
Re: JB in two similar guitars, very different tone?

What bridges do these guitars have?

What do the guitars measure for D/C resistance on the output plug, with the JB selected and all pots at "10"?
 
Re: JB in two similar guitars, very different tone?

uOpt said:
What bridges do these guitars have?

What do the guitars measure for D/C resistance on the output plug, with the JB selected and all pots at "10"?
Click to expand...

They have almost identical Ibanez trems, and I don't have a DMM to measure the resistance.
 
Re: JB in two similar guitars, very different tone?

In the video I posted does anyone even notice a difference, or am I going crazy?
 
Re: JB in two similar guitars, very different tone?

yeah, i 'htink' i can hear a tiny difference ... now, i wouldnt trust the fidelity of the recording-thru-playback chain (camera mic quality, youtube audio track compression, my crappy speakers, etc), but to me, the yellow one sounds the tiniest bit 'brighter/less ballsy' to me ... but its really slight .. i'd wanna reserve judgement til i heard it in person thru a quality amp

string height/action/relief the same?

it might be coming down to individual cuts of wood in addition to the fingerboard wood difference

good luck
t4d
 
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