JB vs. HB-102 : Pinch Harmonics?

[Silence Kid]

Deciding whether I need to drop a new pickup in this guitar, or it's something else.

My Jackson SLX sounds good with the Duncan Designed HB-102 ; JB-like (or enough to satisfy me,) EXCEPT for pinch harmonics. They are just HARD to coax out of this guitar; harder than any other guitar I own. More difficult to execute than my 'real' JB guitar. I want the JB sound, so on one hand it seems logical to grab another real JB...

But I have to wonder, whether it might be some other aspect of the guitar that's throwing things off? It's a stock Jackson SLX, basswood/maple with Floyd Special. Stock 500k pots, have played with the height, etc....

So is this an aspect of the HB-102 that other people have noticed? Or is it a side-effect of possibly something else?

 

[EDX]

Re: JB vs. HB-102 : Pinch Harmonics?

well, the only i can think other than the pots having a loose tolerance and shaving highs maybe the floyd special zinc alloy saddles dampening the pinch harmonic freqs, but if it is new is very improbable for them to have wear enough to dampen string vibration, check pots numbers and if they're good (way close or physical 500kohms) then it's the pickup

 

[darthphineas]

Re: JB vs. HB-102 : Pinch Harmonics?

#1. FRS
#2. Does the guitar have a right proper setup?

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: JB vs. HB-102 : Pinch Harmonics?

I think it plays extremely well, straight neck with just a bit of relief, decent sustain... Low action but not ridiculous mega-low like some people do; high enough my up-bends with the bar don't choke out.

The Floyd Special bugs a bit; the pivots have slight wear already and it goes a small bit out with up-bends, not too much but I'm already leery of it. Which is a more likely contributor to the issue, the saddles or block?

 

[darthphineas]

Re: JB vs. HB-102 : Pinch Harmonics?

The Floyd Special bugs a bit; the pivots have slight wear already and it goes a small bit out with up-bends, not too much but I'm already leery of it. Which is a more likely contributor to the issue, the saddles or block?

both.

additionally, the posts/inserts on the Asian-made FR stuff are more and more notorious for looser tolerances... which can lead to tuning and tone issues. doesn't help when guitar shops raise/lower the action with the bridge in tune at tension - yes, I've seen a "known" builder pull that stunt.

don't waste time/resources upgrading a part here or there on a FRS. upgrade the whole thing. real German FR, at minimum.... or Schaller LockMeister. a new kit should also come with new posts/inserts (if you're not OK with removing them, find a guitar shop that can). or upgrade to the titanium post/busings, which have super tight thread tolerance, as well as being more resistant to wear than the Asian-made FR products.

 

[Coma]

Re: JB vs. HB-102 : Pinch Harmonics?

Same scale length on both guitars? That mkaes quite a difference for me at least.

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: JB vs. HB-102 : Pinch Harmonics?

Revisiting this; so I seem to have "fixed" it to a degree by lowering the polepieces, and raising the entire pickup. That is, the polepieces are at the same height overall, while the rest of the pickup has "risen." The screws are about even with the bobbin under the E strings, slightly higher for the wrapped strings/G and D strings as necessary for balance. Much more sensitive to pick harmonics this way... Then again, most of my other guitars are easier still, but now it's not as picky about it as it once was. The tone is perhaps a bit "fatter" while a bit of focus may have been lost overall? But I do think it sounds better.

As for the Floyd Special... It still needs to go. Not the greatest for stability given the wear (it goes a few cents out under use,) and I have a feeling it contributes a lot to the less loud than ideal un-plugged tone so I wonder how much dynamics are suffering.

 

[Mincer]

Re: JB vs. HB-102 : Pinch Harmonics?

I have to say, I've never tried a Floyd Rose Special that actually stays in tune. They are pretty cheap, so my guess is that is where your sustain is going.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: JB vs. HB-102 : Pinch Harmonics?

The JB gets great harmonics...never tried a HB-102 so no experience with that pup.

The best pickups for pinch harmonics that I've used are the Dimebucker/L500s and the Pearly Gates.

That being said, a proper setup as well as good technique goes a long way...holding closing to the edge/tip of the pick helps me.

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: JB vs. HB-102 : Pinch Harmonics?

I use blunt Jazz I picks for that purpose, with a quite choked down grip.

 

[daenius]

Re: JB vs. HB-102 : Pinch Harmonics?

Try raising the pickup a bit and see if it temporarily helps a bit.

I'd drop in a real JB to see if it solves your problem, given that it's an easier and cheaper upgrade than the whole damn bridge.

I'd certainly swap the Special for an OFR or Gotoh (if it fits, cost effective high quality trem!) or Schaller LockMeister at some point though which I'm sure you're already planning to do.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: JB vs. HB-102 : Pinch Harmonics?

My number one (the guitar in my avatar) has a JB in the bridge, but I have HB-102s in my BC Rich Perfect 10 Bich. When I first got it I looked into it and found out that the HB-102 set is essentially a JB/Jazz set made in Korea instead of here in the states (http://www.seymourduncan.com/duncan-designed-pickups). To me, that says that there wouldn't be enough difference to shake a fist at between the pickups, and I believe that to be the case.


That being said, these two guitars sound completely different from one another, but they're also completely different guitars construction-wise.

[TABLE="width: 600, align: left"]
[TR]
[TD]"The Phoenix"
1985 Westone Spectrum LX[/TD]
[TD]"Lucy"
2014 BC Rich Perfect 10 Bich[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6 Strings[/TD]
[TD]10 Strings
(like a 12-string but without the doubled E and A)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Maple Body[/TD]
[TD]Mahogany Body[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Maple Bolt-on Neck[/TD]
[TD]Mahogany Neck Through[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rosewood Fretboard[/TD]
[TD]Ebony Fretboard[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]25.5" Scale Length[/TD]
[TD]24 5/8" Scale Length[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]22 Frets[/TD]
[TD]24 Frets[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Cheap FR-style Tremolo (blocked)[/TD]
[TD]BC Rich Quadramatic Bridge (Fixed)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


As far as pinch harmonics are concerned, I have no problem getting them out of the Westone and I honestly don't know on the BC Rich. Because of the way I play it (being a 10-string), I don't try for as many pinch harmonics with it so I just haven't noticed. I'll give it a try when I get home later today and let you know.

Here's what I CAN tell you: Despite the maple body & neck, the Westone is a darker-sounding guitar than the BCR overall. I attribute this to the doubled treble-side strings and the ebony board, but as you can see from the above differences, there are a lot of factors involved. I guess my point is that there are a lot of other things to consider which could be affecting your ability to get pinch harmonics than the pickups... especially when the pickups are nearly identical to one another by design.

Here's something else you can try. I find my semi-hollow to be difficult for getting pinch harmonics, and I've noticed that it's the same compared to my other guitars unplugged as well... they're just hard to coax out. Do you hear a difference UN-plugged as well? If so, it almost has to be something besides the pickups that's affecting your ability to get pinch harmonics.

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: JB vs. HB-102 : Pinch Harmonics?

Thanks for the feedback... The pickups are basically raised as high as possible (I use the Floyd, so they are at the point where an up-bend won't slam the strings into the polepieces, any higher and that would happen.)

It's about equal for me to grab the harmonics unplugged. The funny thing is it's the opposite of my American Strat; easy pinch harmonics, but natural harmonics on the Strat don't shine or come through as much. My other Strats don't suffer from that; again, differences in the bridge construction stand out (two vs. six point in that case.) Or the LSR nut on that guitar?

 

[daenius]

Re: JB vs. HB-102 : Pinch Harmonics?

Thanks for the feedback... The pickups are basically raised as high as possible (I use the Floyd, so they are at the point where an up-bend won't slam the strings into the polepieces, any higher and that would happen.)

It's about equal for me to grab the harmonics unplugged. The funny thing is it's the opposite of my American Strat; easy pinch harmonics, but natural harmonics on the Strat don't shine or come through as much. My other Strats don't suffer from that; again, differences in the bridge construction stand out (two vs. six point in that case.) Or the LSR nut on that guitar?

The nut and bridge certainly affect the string vibrations quite directly so that would certainly be my first guess if you're talking about the harmonics unplugged. I'm sure I'll get flamed a ton for this but I personally think that when it comes to the plugged in electric guitar sound, the bridge and nut hardware make a bigger impact than the wood does.

 

[Ascension]

Re: JB vs. HB-102 : Pinch Harmonics?

both.

additionally, the posts/inserts on the Asian-made FR stuff are more and more notorious for looser tolerances... which can lead to tuning and tone issues. doesn't help when guitar shops raise/lower the action with the bridge in tune at tension - yes, I've seen a "known" builder pull that stunt.

don't waste time/resources upgrading a part here or there on a FRS. upgrade the whole thing. real German FR, at minimum.... or Schaller LockMeister. a new kit should also come with new posts/inserts (if you're not OK with removing them, find a guitar shop that can). or upgrade to the titanium post/busings, which have super tight thread tolerance, as well as being more resistant to wear than the Asian-made FR products.

Agree on the FR Special not being up to normal FR standards. Would also throw in the Ghoto Floyd which is my personal favorite of all of them in current production. All time it's the Kahaler Steeler and yes i own or have owned just about every variant of a Floyd out there!
On the pickup best pickup I have owned in a passive for pinch harmonics has been the 59/Custom Hybrid bar none. Just absolutely harmonically explosive and makes my JB's sound kinda constipated overly compressed and flat in comparison. Biggest tonal surprise I have ever swapped in. The Hybrid is a MUCH bigger sounding and hotter feeling pickup than you would think looking at the resistance and output rating!! May be just the ticket in a guitar that lacks a little "life"!!

 

[Ascension]

Re: JB vs. HB-102 : Pinch Harmonics?

Thanks for the feedback... The pickups are basically raised as high as possible (I use the Floyd, so they are at the point where an up-bend won't slam the strings into the polepieces, any higher and that would happen.)

Hmm that comment is a BIG red flag on your harmonic issue!! I would drop the pickups away from the strings and try playing the guitar unplugged. I have seen more than once situations where the magnetic pull from pickups being to close to strings absolutely killed harmonics and sustain. In particular with strong magnets like a ceramic or A8!!!