Jimmy Page Wiring Modification

[ronno]

I've searched on the threads there have been about this, but would appreciate any help from those who have done this mod.
I'm thinking of putting the 498T and 490R from my Les Paul Standard into a Les Paul Studio Lite I have and doing the Jimmy Page wiring. The Studio Lite has a much thinner acoustic tone than my Standard. so more mid rangey sounding pickups should beef it up a bit and help with the sound on the thinner switching options with the Page wiring e.g. coil tapping.
Has anyone does this mod with these pickups? How did it sound?
Any other recommendations for pickups?
I have read that 'vintage' sounding pickups e.g. Seth Lovers sound too thin when coil tapped.
I have the schematic from Gibson and was going to use that but noticed from a previous thread that guitarelectronics has 3 possible configurations.
Has anyone used these? How do they sound? Guitarelectronics says their wiring options are not the same as the Gibson one but produce the same sounds - is this right?

All help appreciated

 

[joelap]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring Modification

I believe OldSlowhand has the JP Wiring on his Les Paul... maybe he can help you out? Hope I at least pointed you in the right direction.

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring Modification

I have a couple of LPs wired with the JP wiring as it comes from Gibson. The GE site schematics for the JP wiring have had issues in the past and I am not sure if they have been corrected. Kent_S. from this forum has some great diagrams of the JP wiring that are correct if I am not mistaken, you might ask him for a copy.

The Studio Lites have the 490R/498T set in them if I am not mistaken so swapping pickups won't change anything. Another problem is that the 490R/498T factory set are vintage one conductor wired and the JP wiring calls for four conductor pickups.

Finally, it has been awhile since I last worked on a Studio Lite LP but I believe they have the long shaft pots and steel mounting plate inside the control cavity. You'll need to modify the control cavity (remove some wood from the back side of the top) to get short shaft dpdt pushpulls to mount properly inside that guitar.

To date, no one manufactures a pushpull pot that fits Gibby production LPs.

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring Modification

I have a couple of LPs wired with the JP wiring as it comes from Gibson. The GE site schematics for the JP wiring have had issues in the past and I am not sure if they have been corrected. Kent_S. from this forum has some great diagrams of the JP wiring that are correct if I am not mistaken, you might ask him for a copy.

The Studio Lites have the 490R/498T set in them if I am not mistaken so swapping pickups won't change anything. Another problem is that the 490R/498T factory set are vintage one conductor wired and the JP wiring calls for four conductor pickups.

Finally, it has been awhile since I last worked on a Studio Lite LP but I believe they have the long shaft pots and steel mounting plate inside the control cavity. You'll need to modify the control cavity (remove some wood from the back side of the top) to get short shaft dpdt pushpulls to mount properly inside that guitar.

To date, no one manufactures a pushpull pot that fits Gibby production LPs.

Right on! He covered everything! Right down to the short/long shaft pot issue. Very cool!

B

 

[ronno]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring Modification - Old Slowhand (and others?)

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring Modification - Old Slowhand (and others?)

thanks for the replies.
Robert S. thanks for flagging up the issues. I have the schematic from Gibson. The Studio Lite has the ceramic pickups which really do sound horrible in this guitar so hopefully some alnico magnets will help. As the Studio Lite is thinner than a Standard will the pot length still be an issue?

Anyone else tried SD pickups with the Page wiring mod? I'd love to hear what you think works

thanks

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring Modification

Ronno, look inside of the control cavity and if you see that the pots are mounted to a steel plate then you have the long shaft pots.

I've used the JP wiring with a C-5/PGn combo, a 59 set and a Jimmy Page Custom Shop set and it was all good. The issue of vintage style/low output pickups not sounding good when split is somewhat of a myth. Some people prefer hotter bridge pickups to split but I get very useable if not somewhat different split tones from low, medium and high output humbuckers.

 

[ronno]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring Modification

Robert S. - yes the Studio Lite has the plate.
When you put the 59s in with the Page wiring do they sound the same on the normal humbucker setting as they would with non push-pull pots or does the Page wiring do anything to the basic tone on those traditional humbucker positons?

thanks again

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring Modification

The JP wiring defaults to normal HB operation so with nothing "engaged" the guitar acts and sounds as a stock guitar.

I routed the cavities in my production LPs to accept the std length pot bushings and you would have to do the same to do the JP wiring on that guitar with push/pulls. You could hide 4 mini toggles just under the pickguard (mount them to the pickguard so that the levers peek out from onder the guard) and them you open up the side of the bridge HBs mounting ring and run the wiring from under the guard, through the mounting ring and through the body channel to the control cavity.

Thats the way JPs LP is reported to be wired. When JPs LP was wired he didn't want to install switches into an expensive guitars top (he payed a couple of grand for his 59 LP as the story goes). Little did he know at the time...........

 

[ronno]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring Modification

Robert
thanks again for answering my queries. If the Page wiring doesn't affect the normal humbucker sounds I think I might try it in my Standard as well as the Studio Lite. I'm still making my mind up about classic PAF sounding pickups for the STandard but your advice in another post of mine was to go with the antiquities.
I'd like to try these but here in the Uk they are really expensive. If I'm going for the Page wiring in both guitars I can see the bills mounting quickly as I will be paying a tech to do this.
Which brand pots did you use or recommend for the Page wiring job?
I really do fancy doing this in both guitars now! Using the 490R and 498T should suit its acoustic voice and give the 'higher output' version of the Page wiring and then the STandard witht the 'lower output' version of the Page wiring
thanks

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring Modification

The only dpdt I have seen are seemingly imports and from a couple of different sources they were all the same. I believe they are alot like tubes and come from one or just a couple places and everyone just repackages the same stuff.

I usually get mine from www.stewmac.com

Except for the fact that the 490R/498T pickups come with the wrong conductor wiring, it sounds like a plan.

 

[rspst14]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring Modification

Dimarzio makes some quality DPDT push/pull pots. Kent recommended them to me, I believe he said they were actually made by Toshiba specifically for Dimarzio, and they have a custom taper as well. Any Dimarzio dealer should be able to order them for you. The place where I got mine has them for $11 USD each. That's a few dollars more than Stewart Macdonald, but they are higher quality parts than what StewMac sells.

Ryan

 

[Kent S.]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring Modification

Dimarzio makes some quality DPDT push/pull pots. Kent recommended them to me, I believe he said they were actually made by Toshiba specifically for Dimarzio, and they have a custom taper as well. Any Dimarzio dealer should be able to order them for you. The place where I got mine has them for $11 USD each. That's a few dollars more than Stewart Macdonald, but they are higher quality parts than what StewMac sells.

Ryan

Well, the push/pulls aren't made for DMZ (the *custom tapers* are though),
I think they just get them from them (those are the ones that the manufacturer didn't offer DMZ a choice on the taper of them). The marking appears to be a Toshiba marking, although I can't swear to it, I'm pretty sure that's who it belongs to. They are high quality and constructed very well though. The shafts aren't much longer than normal pots though.

 

[Inge Malmstein]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring Modification

There is a simply mod for coil-taping with the tone-pots!

 

[Kent S.]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring Modification

There is a simply mod for coil-taping with the tone-pots!

Yeah,... BUT ... it won't give the JP wiring, and it works best with no-load style controls ... NOTE dielectric coated track termination (nail polish,etc.) modded pots won't work here, they must be of either the track cut or altered wiper stop varieties (there's a pro and con to each of course). I like the ability to blend it in a bit myself. For clear reasons a 500k pot works better here if not a no-load version. I assume that you are not referring to the spin a split thing BTW, as that negates the tone control's normal use.

 

[ronno]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring Modification

Guys
thanks for your information about the pots. I'll chase up the sources you mention, particularly if you think they are better quality. Are you equating this to the difference between CTS and Gibson in relation to non DPDT pots?

Robert S. Have you noticed with your guitars with the Page wiring mod that you lose the highs when you turn down the volumes? This is definitely the case with the Page production model. Turning down the volume from 10 to 8 loses loads of highs. I'm wondering whether to put in a treble bleed capacitor to stop this. Have you any other solutions?
thanks

 

[Kent S.]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring Modification

Guys
thanks for your information about the pots. I'll chase up the sources you mention, particularly if you think they are better quality. Are you equating this to the difference between CTS and Gibson in relation to non DPDT pots?

Robert S. Have you noticed with your guitars with the Page wiring mod that you lose the highs when you turn down the volumes? This is definitely the case with the Page production model. Turning down the volume from 10 to 8 loses loads of highs. I'm wondering whether to put in a treble bleed capacitor to stop this. Have you any other solutions?
thanks

Ah, the differences shaft height aren't going to be any longer than normal non DPDT pots )I think they are a tad bit longer, but not much. Electronically, the cts pots are a 20% tolerance pot (don't know about gibby), and they are made very well. The DMZ custom taper pots have always been very close to their nameplate value ...whether this was luck of the draw or a matter of DMZ policy that I don't know about, the push/pulls though appeared to be 10% or better, the latest batch I got seemed to be 20% ... so, I don't know what's up there, they are made very well though, and much better than some of the all parts and stewmac ones that I have had in the past. The last ones that I got from stewmac were horridly cheap (this was years ago however),so I don't know what they currently offer.
I would call DMZ though and ask about the taper on the push/pulls however, as I have seen some marked a bit oddly. I was told they were audio taper, and have some in my guitars that appear to be such;however some newer ones appear to be linear taper? Like I said, I'd ask first.
The JP LP does have 300k linear volume pots though (I don't remember if the tones are specified ... I would imagine 500k audio taper there), so 500k push/pulls (if they are linear would work there nicely).
The question of the high end roll off, two things one does your guitar shut off when in the middle position (normal LP mode) and one volume is turned to *0*, if not then the volumes are wired as variable load volume controls, this will load a pup down, and you'll lose high end as you turn down,more so than normal. However all pups will lose high end as you turn down, the HPF is a viable option, but, try the '50's wiring first ... move the tone pot cap to the lug that does not connect to the pickup output this will reatin more highs as your guitar is turned down without actually boosting the highs.
I say try this first as it requires less work and no extra parts.

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring Modification

I don't care for the 50s wiring or treble pass caps on my guitars and I prefer the guitar to lose top end when I roll down the volume pots. That way I can warm up the guitar during less agressive or when clean and then rolling the volume up adds presence and bite to my lead work and other agressive passages. I control my overall levels from the amp and not at the guitar.

The 50s wiring or a 100 ohm resistor in parallel with a .001 mf cap across the #2 and #3 terminals of your volume pot will hold your top end in. Many guitar manufacturers simply bridge the #2 and #3 terminals with a .001 mf cap.

 

[ronno]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring Modification

Kent S. and Robert S. thanks for your replies. Personally I do prefer not to lose highs when I roll the volume back. This is particularly a problem on the neck pickup on the JPLP model as dropping the volume to 8 makes it incredibly muddy and the ceramics are bright pickups.
Kent S. the wiring diagram from Gibson says the volume and tone pots are 500k, so I definitely would use the mod you suggest or a treble bleed capacitor.
JUst out of interest do you know what the RS Premium Kit does as it suggests it overcomes the problems of the 50s wiring. what are those problems?

thanks again both of you

 

[Oldslowhand]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring Modification

This is the JP mod I used Sorry it's sideways but I still can't get a large enough image the right way up (for some reason the manage image rejects the the right way up !!!!) For the 50's mod I think you need to move the cap wire to the middle tag on the volume pots

 

[ronno]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring Modification

Oldslowhand
thanks for the diagram
After all your help folks I'm taking the guitar to the tech's on Thursday to get the job done

thanks to everyone