Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

[Yzerman]

Hi Guys,

A few months back i posted a thread about the problems i had with a muddy sounding PRS CE22 that i bought online (see post link below) and i'm writing an update to say that i'm at the end of my rope...and my wallet for Pickups. I've tried so many combinations now i'm starting to lose track...and the guitar still sounds like there's a blanket over my amp. I thought i had it solved with the C5 but in a live setting the soundman always told me to lose the PRS and go back to my LP because the PRS was too muddy. :-(

The guitar plays great and i love the feel but it always sounds like the tone know is at about 7 and i can't fix it.

I've tried these pickups

Bridge
JB
C5
C5 with UOA5
CC
Aldrich Suhr

Neck

AP2
Jazz

I'm at the point where i just want to dump the guitar and move on instead of dropping more pickups in it. I've checked the wiring a hundred times and i even tried a few pickups wired directly to the jack and they sound the same. The volume pot was replaced to a high grade CTS 500K as well.

I have a JB in my LP Standard and i love it through my Mesa F-50 half stack, so that's why i started with the JB but it was a flabby muddy mess which is odd.

My local dealer doesn't have lots of stock so i mostly order online and a new Duncan can run me $130 Cdn...so it's starting to add up.

Any thought before i sell this PRS for a loss and move on?

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/sho...didn-t-do-my-homework-before-buying-pickups-(

 

[darthphineas]

Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

I think Luke Duke said something about being happy with DiMarzio Illuminators in his PRS

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

Thanks for the mention Darth.

Alright yzerman here's the deal. There is no Duncan is p'up combo I've tried in my CU24 that made me happy. By design mahogany bodies PRS guitars have a mid thick cutting tone. It's great for lead but it makes rhythm more difficult because the guitar is right up front honking away.

This thread https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?313887-My-PRS-has-received-Illumination shows all the p'ups I've tried.

Now, your guitar might do better going with the Dimarzio Steve's Special because it has more of a scoop than the illuminators.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

I have four PRS guitars and none of them are muddy.

You're doing something to make them muddy.

Too much bass, too much gain, too much overdrive...who knows?

But it's hard to believe it's the guitar.

I currently have a set of Custom Shop Pearly Gates in my two PRS Custom 22's, a set of regular PG's in one Singlecut and a set of the APH-2's (the Slash set) in my other Singlecut.

Also liked the Dragons and Dragon II's that originally came in the CU-22's...and no mud there either.

Did you leave the 180 pf bright cap PRS puts across the volume pots in PRS guitars? I like it!

 

[Yzerman]

Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

I've used the wiring diagram from the PRS site and i believe everything is correct. I've replaced the Volume and there was no change. Tonight i'm going to replace the jack just because it's easy and i'll wire directly to the jack to see if it helps. The tone pot is not so easy to replace because it's push/pull to split the coils so i would need to order it from PRS and it's not cheap.

As for the amp settings.... the gain on my F-50 is about 3 which is like a classic VH kind of gain, not too much for sure. For those that know about these amps, the EQ is odd but i have the bass around 2.5-3 and i don't particularly like too much bass so it's perfect with my LP. The Treble and Mids are past half and these setting are perfect with my LP...and maybe even a little on the bright side.

As soon as i use the PRS it sounds like i put a blanket over the amp...it's really bad. I've had others try it and they ask why it sounds so bad...then i hand them my LP and they love the tone of the amp.

I'll check the bright caps tonight and try to post pics.

I did notice on the schematics that some versions have a bright cap wired to the side of the tone pot and other drawings have it going from the tone to lug #2 on the volume which already has a cap there across Lug 1 & 2

Here's the schematic i use from PRS

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

Dinarzio makes great pots with a push pull and the taper is nice too.

What's are your mids set at?

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

First: Post pics of your wiring. This seems like the most plausible source of issues and the more eyes on it, the more likely we are to spot potential issues.

Second: Assuming everything about the wiring is in order, consider moving away from those hotter A5 and A2 based pickups. If I had a naturally "muddy" guitar, I'd never even bother with a Custom Custom or putting a UOA5 in something. Likewise, the JB and the Aldrich typically don't work all that well in naturally muddy guitars, which can give them a flabby character like you experienced. In all honesty, you probably need a brighter ceramic-based pickup to bring out the punch, tightness and clarity you're wanting. You could also start with a mid-output A5 pickup like a Screamin' Demon and see where it takes you, but I'd suggest looking at trying the SH-6N "Distortion Neck" in the bridge, the Black Winter set, a Gibson 500T or one of several DiMarzios, such as the Evolution, Evo2, Fred and/or Illuminators.

Third: Consider replacing/upgrading the bridge. The bridge is a common source of tone problems and, while unlikely, it's always possible you just got a bad piece of hardware.

Fourth: It could be the guitar. I know that sounds sort of ridiculous, but there are a few genuine turds out there. If everything else checks out, then you've got a decision to make...

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

I have four PRS guitars and none of them are muddy...it's hard to believe it's the guitar.

I'm inclined to agree with you, except that it seems when he switches back to the Les Paul, its doing better at whatever this problem is. That should point to a problem that a pickup CAN solve, but it could also point to his particular PRS behaving strangely.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

I did notice on the schematics that some versions have a bright cap wired to the side of the tone pot and other drawings have it going from the tone to lug #2 on the volume which already has a cap there across Lug 1 & 2

Here's the schematic i use from PRS

You've got the caps confused...the cap going from the vol pot to the tone pot (labelled as .022 uf in the diagram) is the tone cap. The cap going across lugs #1 & 2 of the volume pot (labelled as 180 pfd in the diagram) is the "bright cap".

Also, in the diagram you've got the black ground wire from the vol pot going to the center lug of the switch, then going to the input lug of the vol pot (as a red wire). This is way wrong.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

Also, in the diagram you've got the black ground wire from the vol pot going to the center lug of the switch, then going to the input lug of the vol pot (as a red wire). This is way wrong.

Nah that's not what it is. It looks that way but what they mean is the red wire is to the two hot tabs (one for each side) which are usually bent together and the wire goes through both holes. Then, UNDER that which you can't really see from the line drawing, is a separate tab that is at the center of the switch, that grounds the chassis. And that's where they mean the pickup grounds to go as well

 

[misterwhizzy]

Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

I had a similar problem with my PRS SE Custom 22. I've accepted the fact that it's a middy guitar. The Distortion set fixed things. I tried Blackouts, but they were just too much. I tried a stock Custom, which is weird to write. Still too middy, so I swapped in an Alnico V, which helped, but it wasn't what I was looking for. Back to the Distortions, and all is right with the world. I'm also using a coil-split setup, but I used SD's wiring diagram, which seems a lot simpler than the craziness you're showing above.

I've been there, I hear you. Good luck, because they play great, even though they're no Les Pauls.

 

[jtougas]

Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

Have you tried swapping out the tone pot?

 

[Southbound Suarez]

Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

For one, a low output pup will not give you mud. I'd take the lower DCR of the AP2 and Jazz, and put that humbucker in the neck position w/an A4 polished long magnet and then use the other remaining humbucker in the bridge position with a A4 rough cast long magnet swap.


AND, you're going to get clarity w/slightly less mids using A4 magnets, as Luke Duke alluded to when he said, "PRS guitars have a mid thick cutting tone"

 

[Southbound Suarez]

Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

ALL pots and electronics need to be upgraded: pots, jacks, tone caps, toggle or blade switch, wiring. Many a guitar guy has recommended the "Bourns" brand of potentiometers over other brands.

 

[stratguy23]

Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

I'm surprised the Custom 5 didn't work out - it would be my first suggestion for a stereotypically mids-forward PRS.

I agree with the above suggestion to try lower output pickups. Those will be inherently more open. Maybe try something like a 59 bridge, Seth Lover neck? Or maybe Full Shred set? That has a lot of mids also but it is tight and meant to cut through a mix.

Pearly Gates bridge might also do the trick. The big top end spike there should cut through any mud.

Also, yeah, in your situation, I would swap in all new electronics: jack, switch, pots, caps. Together the parts aren't expensive, even good ones, and they can make an audible difference.

 

[Southbound Suarez]

Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

I'm surprised the Custom 5 didn't work out - it would be my first suggestion for a stereotypically mids-forward PRS.

I agree with the above suggestion to try lower output pickups. Those will be inherently more open. Maybe try something like a 59 bridge, Seth Lover neck? Or maybe Full Shred set? That has a lot of mids also but it is tight and meant to cut through a mix.

Pearly Gates bridge might also do the trick. The big top end spike there should cut through any mud.

Also, yeah, in your situation, I would swap in all new electronics: jack, switch, pots, caps. Together the parts aren't expensive, even good ones, and they can make an audible difference.

Luke Duke said, "The PRS guitars have a mid thick cutting tone". SO, added mids or excessive mids are not the answer here, especially if the guitar is already dark sounding which is what the OP is presently having difficulties with.

Low output pickups (low to mid 7K range) by their very nature will be brighter.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

Fellas it's a CE not a SE. It's going to already have CTS pots and switches in it, not Alpha. If the OP wanted a higher value such as 1Meg that would make sense,but idiot know if that's the kind of frequency shift desired.

 

[some_dude]

Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

I've tried these pickups

Bridge
JB
C5
C5 with UOA5
CC
Aldrich Suhr

Neck

AP2
Jazz

I haven't liked the JB, C5 or A2P. All were kind of loose/muddy for my tastes.

I'm not good at making recommendations... although I'd suggest skipping Alnico 5 and considering ceramic for this guitar.

 

[jtougas]

Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

Free thing to try: wiring each pickup in parallel, instead of in series. If it's still muddy then, give up.

 

[Yzerman]

Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

I'll give this a try.

Thanks