Karmer Pacer - Satchel from Steel Panther

[dsuigdsf]

Hi!
This guy has great tone, I love it.
I see he used kramer before he went for charvel.
I wonder what wood have his kramers. Mahogany, Maple or Alder?
And I see that in Kramers he use JB. I have Fender with Alder body and JB and it don't sound like his guitars.
His signature Kramers have Maple body, but earlier Pacers often produced mahogany body so I wonder.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Karmer Pacer - Satchel from Steel Panther

Hi!
This guy has great tone, I love it.
I see he used kramer before he went for charvel.
I wonder what wood have his kramers. Mahogany, Maple or Alder?
And I see that in Kramers he use JB. I have Fender with Alder body and JB and it don't sound like his guitars.
His signature Kramers have Maple body, but earlier Pacers often produced mahogany body so I wonder.

Ok, gotta set something right here. NO Kramer that Kramer built was ever made of mahogany. The only model that was mahogany was the NightSwan and that was a Buddy Blaze guitar to start with, so. Now, with that out of the way, the Pacers that Satchel used cannot even touch the Pacers of the 80's. The old Pacers were either maple or alder. The newer stuff (not even the same company from the 80's mind you) were imported from Korea and the specs say Solid Body for the wood. Who knows what it could be. There's more to tone than the guitar and pickups. There's the amp, speakers, and of course, the player.

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: Karmer Pacer - Satchel from Steel Panther

For the 1 trillionth time, a player is not scientifically any parameter of the tone of gear. Tone is pickups, guitar, amp, cord. pic,strings Period. Should a robot be programmed to play exactly like player x on 100 different rigs, the gear would still be the determinant factor of tone; you would get 100 different tones, with the robot playuer being inconsequntial to any factor whatsoever excepyaybe how the player works the particular sound out of the gear and nothing more.


Tone..is..not..in..the..fingers.tone is in the gear..tone is in the gear, PERIOD.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Karmer Pacer - Satchel from Steel Panther

For the 1 trillionth time, a player is not scientifically any parameter of the tone of gear. Tone is pickups, guitar, amp, cord. pic,strings Period. Should a robot be programmed to play exactly like player x on 100 different rigs, the gear would still be the determinant factor of tone; you would get 100 different tones, with the robot playuer being inconsequntial to any factor whatsoever excepyaybe how the player works the particular sound out of the gear and nothing more.


Tone..is..not..in..the..fingers.tone is in the gear..tone is in the gear, PERIOD.

And you're clueless, but we knew that already. Try again.

 

[Sirion]

Re: Karmer Pacer - Satchel from Steel Panther

Ok, gotta set something right here. NO Kramer that Kramer built was ever made of mahogany. The only model that was mahogany was the NightSwan and that was a Buddy Blaze guitar to start with, so. Now, with that out of the way, the Pacers that Satchel used cannot even touch the Pacers of the 80's. The old Pacers were either maple or alder. The newer stuff (not even the same company from the 80's mind you) were imported from Korea and the specs say Solid Body for the wood. Who knows what it could be. There's more to tone than the guitar and pickups. There's the amp, speakers, and of course, the player.

To be fair, this isn't quite correct. The Nightswan was designed by Blaze, but produced in the same facilities as all the other guitars. What is more, the ProAxe was also mahogany. Older Pacers could also be poplar. The rest – that is, the important bit – is absolutely correct.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Karmer Pacer - Satchel from Steel Panther

For the 1 trillionth time, a player is not scientifically any parameter of the tone of gear. Tone is pickups, guitar, amp, cord. pic,strings Period. Should a robot be programmed to play exactly like player x on 100 different rigs, the gear would still be the determinant factor of tone; you would get 100 different tones, with the robot playuer being inconsequntial to any factor whatsoever excepyaybe how the player works the particular sound out of the gear and nothing more.


Tone..is..not..in..the..fingers.tone is in the gear..tone is in the gear, PERIOD.

This is in no way an official word on this subject.

 

[devastone]

Re: Karmer Pacer - Satchel from Steel Panther

Not sure what Satchel's Kramers were made of, but EVH's Kramers were poplar FWIW.

 

[Van Noord]

Re: Karmer Pacer - Satchel from Steel Panther

And you're clueless, but we knew that already. Try again.

Correction...drunk and clueless. A disgustingly dangerous combination.

 

[CaptainWhizz]

Re: Karmer Pacer - Satchel from Steel Panther

Hi!
This guy has great tone, I love it.
I see he used kramer before he went for charvel.
I wonder what wood have his kramers. Mahogany, Maple or Alder?
And I see that in Kramers he use JB. I have Fender with Alder body and JB and it don't sound like his guitars.
His signature Kramers have Maple body, but earlier Pacers often produced mahogany body so I wonder.

What about your bridge, strings, pedals, amp, speakers, etc?

 

[BloodRose]

Re: Karmer Pacer - Satchel from Steel Panther

Sirion, Correct! The lots of people forget the Pro Axe. Its one of my dream guitars.

In searching, The other highest end Pacer Kramer currently makes is Maple body as is the Satchel. He also is rocking an EVH amp these days..

 

[Sirion]

Re: Karmer Pacer - Satchel from Steel Panther

Sirion, Correct! The lots of people forget the Pro Axe. Its one of my dream guitars.

In searching, The other highest end Pacer Kramer currently makes is Maple body as is the Satchel. He also is rocking an EVH amp these days..

It is one of mine, too. Those things are pretty rare to come by, unfortunately; not many were made.

 

[orpheo]

Re: Karmer Pacer - Satchel from Steel Panther

Satchel's kramers were maple.

If tone is not in the fingers, why do I sound so differently from my buddy when we use the EXACT SAME GEAR?!

 

[CaptainWhizz]

Re: Karmer Pacer - Satchel from Steel Panther

Satchel's kramers were maple.

If tone is not in the fingers, why do I sound so differently from my buddy when we use the EXACT SAME GEAR?!

In what way do the two of you sound so different?

If tone is "all" in the fingers, then why are there different guitars and amps? Why do people use pedals?

Play a '50s-style hollowbody guitar through a clean, vintage-style Fender amp. Then play a superstrat with a JB or a Duncan Distortion or similar through an overdrive pedal into a cranked, high-gain amp. Tell me that the tone is the same.

 

[orpheo]

Re: Karmer Pacer - Satchel from Steel Panther

In what way do the two of you sound so different?

If tone is "all" in the fingers, then why are there different guitars and amps? Why do people use pedals?

Play a '50s-style hollowbody guitar through a clean, vintage-style Fender amp. Then play a superstrat with a JB or a Duncan Distortion or similar through an overdrive pedal into a cranked, high-gain amp. Tell me that the tone is the same.

the tone is absolutely not the same, but what you're doing here is 'reducto ad absurdum': taking an argument and ridiculizing that argument. To take my example: my buddy and I took each other's gear and played the same riffs. We like the same tones, we like the same genres. (we took an aristides 060 with an alpha/omega set through a kemper, just for your information). We took the same amp settings, a Soldano SLO. His sound was great: nice sizzle, nice attack, fat bottom end and power. When I picked it up, it was skreechy, thin, fizzy, trebly. Then, we took an amp setting I love, a REVV Generator 120 channel 4 Red. My tone was ballsy with edge, a bit gritty and with a fluid lead tone. His tone was flat, lacked power and balls, no attack and was overly mid heavy.

why? Because I hold a guitar differently, I hit the strings differently, I attack the strings differently from him. We even used the same pick!

We use different pickups, different timbers, amps etc to dial in the tone we hear in our minds. I can't make the tone of a bluesbreaker with my fingers if I play through a rectifier... But that is of course ridiculous. But the 'tone in fingers' part simply means that you as a player define the overall character of the tone, the 'mojo', the vibe. I don't know how, but my ears and anecdotal evidence has proven that much. When the differences are that noticable when all is the same, even to the pick, pickups, guitar, amp and strings, I can only conclude that it is down to the guitar.

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Karmer Pacer - Satchel from Steel Panther

This thread has definitely died a disappointing death of disjointed didactic discourse

 

[CaptainWhizz]

Re: Karmer Pacer - Satchel from Steel Panther

The statement given was that "tone is all in the fingers" (emphasis added).
But I never said it was nothing to do with the fingers, because that would equally be wrong.
The way a guitarist plays a guitar absolutely affects the final sound, but it is not all in the fingers.

So back to the original question, it would help us to know what else was in the OP's signal chain other than an Alder-bodied Fender with a JB in it. Even knowing what type of Fender it was would help, is it a short-scale offset with a fixed bridge for example? A Bass VI? Running into a 10 watt solid-state with an 8" speaker?

 

[ErikH]

Re: Karmer Pacer - Satchel from Steel Panther

To be fair, this isn't quite correct. The Nightswan was designed by Blaze, but produced in the same facilities as all the other guitars. What is more, the ProAxe was also mahogany. Older Pacers could also be poplar. The rest – that is, the important bit – is absolutely correct.

I forgot about the ProAxe. But by that time, Kramer was pretty much on the way out and barely hanging on by a thread. Buddy Blaze made the first Nightswan, it was truly a Blaze guitar. Kramer then hired Buddy as a business associate. Before then, it was known as the Blaze Shredder.

Not sure what Satchel's Kramers were made of, but EVH's Kramers were poplar FWIW.

The 5150's were actually Basswood. How do I know this? A former employee who worked at Kramer back in the day and painted them, along with many others. This discussion went on for a while on the Kramer Guitars FB page and he confirmed they were all Basswood, and the only ones that were.

 

[CaptainWhizz]

Re: Karmer Pacer - Satchel from Steel Panther

The current EVH Striped Series are apparently basswood at Eddie’s request.

 

[BloodRose]

Re: Karmer Pacer - Satchel from Steel Panther

I forgot about the ProAxe. But by that time, Kramer was pretty much on the way out and barely hanging on by a thread. Buddy Blaze made the first Nightswan, it was truly a Blaze guitar. Kramer then hired Buddy as a business associate. Before then, it was known as the Blaze Shredder.



The 5150's were actually Basswood. How do I know this? A former employee who worked at Kramer back in the day and painted them, along with many others. This discussion went on for a while on the Kramer Guitars FB page and he confirmed they were all Basswood, and the only ones that were.

Yeah,the Pro Axe was pretty much the Last great Kramer design before the end...Sadly, when my mom moved, she tossed all my circus and guitar mags away with all the old guitar ads in them

 

[jmh151]

Re: Karmer Pacer - Satchel from Steel Panther

From what I recall, Kramer had import companies building a lot of their bodies and necks and the guitars were assembled in New Jersey. During their early years, a Canadian company was making everything, and the bodies were either maple, poplar or alder.

Then in the later years ESP was building for them, which resulted in the Pro Axe, Liberty, and other models which started to use Mahogany.

As for Satchel, Gibson, which owns Kramer these days, had his signature guitars made in the USA in the small factory that builds a few more brands for Gibson, so they aren’t mystery wood like the import models.

Satchel has recently switched over to Charvel